Olson/Smith Debate on Salvation

 
 
 Proposition: 
 Salvation comes at the point of faith before any outwards signs 
such as confession and baptism.
Affirm: Dr. Lloyd Olson
Deny: J. T. Smith

DR. OLSON'S SECOND AFFIRMATIVE.
I.    Definitions
II.   Justification
III.  OT examples in the NT
IV.   NT Examples
V.    Challenge
VI.   Mr. Smith's Failures
VII.  New Material
VIII. Conclusion

I. DEFINITIONS
Mr. Smith could only muster a vague disagreement on definitions 
claiming that he knows his position better than I do. So what 
change did he propose? Rather than present something of 
substance, Mr. Smith was content with vague implications. Sadly, 
his groundless implications reveal an abject misunderstanding of 
justification. 

II. JUSTIFICATION
Did Mr. Smith refute anything I presented? While he could refer 
to the preposition "dia," he avoided any direct discussion of 
justification. He had to run down a rabbit trail for no lexical 
evidence supports his position. A discussion of justification 
would have been a relatively easy task for anyone genuinely 
seeking the truth. One only needs to examine 40 occurrences of 
the Greek word "dikaioo."

Did Mr. Smith refute the biblical evidences that justification is 
by faith alone? Not directly. His feeble refutation rested upon 
an abuse of James 2.  He abused this passage by yanking it out of 
all three possible contexts and redefining common sense according 
to his denominational creeds.

In James 2:14-26, Mr. Smith ignored the overarching context: 
already saved believers. James urges them to provide works worthy 
of their standing in Christ. It is an error to make spiritual 
growth of sanctification a requirement for justification. We 
expect the baby to talk + walk sometime after birth. We don't 
demand maturity as a requirement for birth. Proof of life happens 
AFTER birth. This sanctification passage cannot possibly be 
twisted into support for justification – unless one is hell-bent 
to find support for an errant man-made doctrine.

Mr. Smith ignored the immediate context: Abraham's justification 
by faith (James 2:23; Gen. 15:6) twenty years before Mt. Moriah 
(Gen. 22; James 2:24). Abraham is an example of justification by 
faith (Rom 4:2-3,13) apart from any obedience and sacrament (4:4-
12). The promise is voided by obedience (Rom 4:14). Justification 
is by grace through faith (Rom 4:16). Justification was IMPUTED 
to Abraham (Rom 4:22) by passive faith; EVENT – not process. 
Salvation includes both justification and sanctification. 
However, one must not blend them together. Justification is 
distinct from sanctification. Justification is first and primal. 
Justification is the basis for sanctification.

Mr. Smith ignored the total picture: James 2:23 with 24. 
Justification is the new birth; sanctification is spiritual 
growth. The righteousness of works before men depends on the 
righteousness of faith before God. "Faith without works is dead" 
can only be used as a means for justified believers to verify 
their justification before others. The book of James deals with 
issues of sanctification. These two must not be confused. Man-
made error that opposes God's Word and common sense forces the 
sanctification part of Abraham's life to be a requirement for 
justification oblivious to Abraham's historic justification.

Context verifies the lexical evidences of justification as 
presented in my first affirmative. Justification in James is 
before others – not before God. The bottom line is that Mr. 
Smith's violation of context springs from an abject 
misunderstanding of justification.

Mr. Smith continues attempts to circumvent God's Word as he 
brazenly declares that "we are not saved by works (only)." Notice 
Mr. Smith's subtle twisting of the passage. Mr. Smith (not God) 
inserted the word "only." This is his feeble attempt to harmonize 
James with Paul.

As has already been shown above, James discusses justification 
BEFORE OTHERS. Paul discusses justification BEFORE GOD. There is 
no need of Mr. Smith's wiles if one understands justification as 
presented in God's Word. Mr. Smith's silence to my presentation 
of the lexical evidences is deafening. When one considers his 
abuse of context and denominational redefinitions of key words, 
it is clear that he has failed in his attempt to support his 
self-righteous PROCESS view of justification.

This is the end of Mr. Smith's first denial. Incredibly, his so-
called refutation of my first affirmative depended in total on a 
perversion of James 2 by willful ignorance of context and 
denominational redefinition of justification.

III. OT examples in the NT
A. Jesus Used The Murmuring Israelites.
Where was Mr. Smith's refutation of justification from above 
(anothen) and not from below?

Where was Mr. Smith's refutation of UNSEEN justification denying 
visible water baptism?

Where was Mr. Smith's refutation of the LOOK of faith alone that 
perfectly completed salvation and affirmed justification as an 
EVENT?

B. Paul Used Abraham
Mr. Smith's refutation of God's teaching of IMPUTATION in Romans 
4 was based upon his slick attempt to add the word "only" to 
God's Word as in "we are not saved by works (only)." Mr. Smith's 
refutation rests upon an urge to prove his denominational creeds 
rather than an urge to base an adulterated belief upon God's 
Word.

C. Peter Used Noah
Where was Mr. Smith's refutation of the fact that Noah was 
justified BEFORE the Flood? 
Where was Mr. Smith's refutation of the fact that Noah built an 
altar to God as an appeal from an already cleansed (justified) 
conscience to live for God in the new world? 
Where was Mr. Smith's refutation of the fact that Peter's epistle 
was an exhortation of sanctification issues?

These examples demolish any attempt to equate water baptism with 
the point of faith. They all happened BEFORE and WITHOUT water 
baptism. Incredibly, Mr. Smith surrendered this point.

IV. NT EXAMPLES
A. Jesus' Baptism
Where was Mr. Smith's refutation of the fact that Jesus' baptism 
is the pattern for us all?

Where was Mr. Smith's refutation of the fact that Jesus' baptism 
is not used for justification?

B. Paul's  Conversion
Where was Mr. Smith's refutation of the fact that Paul was saved 
BEFORE his water baptism (Acts 9:6)?

Where was Mr. Smith's refutation of the fact that Paul was 
commissioned as an apostle to the Gentiles BEFORE his water 
baptism (Acts 9:15; 26:17)?

Where was Mr. Smith's refutation of the fact that Paul denounced 
the inclusion of water baptism in the gospel message (1 Cor 
1:14,17)?

C. Cornelius' Baptism
Where was Mr. Smith's refutation of the fact that Cornelius 
received the remission of sins by faith alone BEFORE his water 
baptism (Acts 10:43)?

Where was Mr. Smith's refutation of the fact that Cornelius 
received the gift of the Holy Spirit BEFORE his water baptism 
(Acts 10:45)?

D. The Israelites' baptism
Where was Mr. Smith's refutation of the fact that the Israelites 
were saved (elected) BEFORE their water baptism unto Moses (1 Cor 
10:1-6)?

Where was Mr. Smith's refutation of the fact that the Israelites 
were redeemed (elected) BEFORE their water baptism unto Moses?

Where was Mr. Smith's refutation of the fact that the Israelites 
were baptized unto Moses AFTER their baptism unto Jesus (the 
Cloud of Fire)?

These examples show that salvation is the EVENT of justification 
by faith BEFORE and WITHOUT water baptism – just like the OT 
examples! Incredibly, Mr. Smith surrendered this point as well.

V. CHALLENGE
I challenged Mr. Smith to provide one Bible verse that links 
justification (dikaioo) before God to any process of human 
activity. HE FAILED! His attempt to use James 2 was convincingly 
shown to abuse context and to rely upon denominational 
redefinitions.

Since the correct definitions of salvation, the point of faith, 
and baptism are directly related, his failure has highlighted 
that salvation is an EVENT (not a process), the point of faith 
happens alone (not with water baptism), and that water baptism 
happens AFTER justification by faith.

Mr. Smith has another five attempts to refute this singular 
demolition of his errant PROCESS justification. I know in advance 
that he will fail yet another five times.

VI. MR. SMITH'S FAILURES
Mr. Smith failed:
__ to provide his own definition of salvation (So mine stands),
__ to address the NT use of OT examples of justification
   by faith alone. He conceded the point!
__ to address the NT teachings of justification by faith alone.
   He conceded the point!
__ to find one Bible verse that links justification (dikaioo)
   before God to any process of human activity.

His attempt at justification was a blatant violation of context 
and an unmitigated appeal to denomination creeds.

Mr. Smith's anemic response refuted nothing. His attempted abuse 
of James 2 was convincingly discredited and invalidated.

VII. NEW MATERIAL
In addition to the material Mr. Smith failed to address, consider 
the great weight of scripture.

A. OT SAINTS
Thousands, maybe millions, perhaps billions of OT saints were 
saved by the SAME GOSPEL as we have (Heb 4:2). Adam and Eve, 
Abel, Seth, Enoch, Job, Lot, Laban, faithless suicidal Samson, a 
generation of murmuring Israelites who fell in the wilderness, 
the city of Ninevah, etc. All of these were saved WITHOUT water 
baptism. All of these were saved BEFORE water baptism. Since they 
were saved by the SAME GOSPEL, water baptism is not in the NT 
gospel message.

B. NT SAINTS
The weeping woman (Luke 7) was saved without a word. This is 
significant since Jesus' disciples baptized. Yet Jesus pronounced 
her sins forgiven without any move whatsoever towards water 
baptism.

Zacchaeus was saved without water baptism (Luke 19). Again, 
Jesus' disciples were not asked to baptize this man.

The thief on the cross (Luke 23). Jesus' declared that he would 
be in heaven on the basis of his faith alone. Baptism wasn't even 
a possibility for this scoundrel.

The paralytic man (Matt 9) was saved without a word. Again, 
Jesus' disciples were not asked to baptize this man.

C. GREAT WEIGHT
It should be relatively easy for the reader of this debate to 
gauge who is using Bible and who is using denominational 
rhetoric.

All of the occurrences of the Greek word for justification 
(dikaioo) affirm justification as an EVENT of God's declaration 
of righteousness at the point of faith without water baptism. Mr. 
Smith took one of those occurrences yanked it out of context, 
abused it with denominational redefinitions, and forced it to 
serve a man-made self-righteous system that cannot save anyone.

Compare the NT uses of OT examples of justification by faith 
alone to Mr. Smith's silence.

Compare the NT examples of justification by faith alone to Mr. 
Smith's non-refutation.

It is clear that Mr. Smith is embracing a system that opposes the 
great weight of the biblical illustrations and teachings that 
affirm justification comes at the point of faith before any 
outwards signs such as confession and baptism.

D. CONTRAST
Compare the countless OT saints saved by faith alone WITHOUT and 
BEFORE water baptism. The harmony of God's Word is convincing and 
certain.

The contrast between these many biblical evidences and Mr. 
Smith's singular deceptive appeal to James 2 is incontrovertible. 
As Mr. Smith noted in his introduction, this is too serious a 
matter to be discussed lightly. If Mr. Smith is genuine about his 
appeal to seek the truth, it should be manifestly obvious that he 
has embraced a man-made system of death that denies the 
sufficiency of Christ in order to worship human-centered self-
righteousness.

Does Mr. Smith really want to embrace the truth of justification 
as an EVENT? – OR – Will he continue worshipping a man-made 
PROCESS of self-righteousness via water baptism?

VIII. CONCLUSION
Positively, EVERY biblical illustration shows that salvation is 
the EVENT of God's sole activity in justification at the point of 
faith in Jesus Christ.

Negatively, NO biblical illustration shows that salvation is a 
PROCESS of human activity that includes water baptism. Water 
baptism for salvation is a man-made perversion of the gospel 
truth.

If Mr. Smith is genuinely serious about aligning himself with the 
truth, he will renounce his diabolical man-made system of death 
and affirm that God's Word declares that salvation comes at the 
point of faith before any outwards signs such as confession and 
baptism.

Lloyd Olson