Cohoon/Gary Debate on Satan

 
 
 Proposition: 
 The Scriptures teach all power is from God and believing in a 
powerful fallen angel named "Satan" is having another god beside 
God.

AFFIRM: James Gary
DENY: Bobby Cohoon

You started by addressing Job. So I will start there also. Why 
would God tell himself that He, God, has a hedge of protection 
around Job: “Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his 
house, and about all that he hath on euery side?” (Job 1:10 KJV 
1611). Would God already know that he had that without having to 
ask himself? Under your opinion Job 1:8-10 would read as follows: 
“And the Jehovah sayd vnto God, Hast thou considered my seruant 
Iob, that there is none like him in the earth? A perfect and an 
vpright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth euill?Then God 
answered ye Jehovah, and sayd, Doeth Iob feare God for nought? 
Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and 
about all that he hath on euery side?”  To this rendition I offer 
the following verse from 1 Corinthians: “For God is not the 
authour of confusion, but of peace, as in all Churches of the 
Saints” (1 Corinthians 14:33 KJV 1611).

You commented on your use of the Lamsa mistranslation: 

“I only used Lamsa because it was clear” (First Affirmative).

What is clear from that version is that is clearly a 
mistranslation. Every translation, except Lamsa, does not use the 
word lunatic for “devil.” Even the Younan, which is also a 
translation of the Peshitta, translates devil instead of lunatic. 
Lamsa had an idea and translated the Bible to stand up to his 
idea. Instead of translating what was written, he translated what 
he wanted to be written. Much like the “New World Translation,” 
the Lamsa adds and changes words to fit a doctrine. 

You asked, 
“But if God is capable of doing anything this supposed fallen 
spiritual being can, what need does God have for him?” 

Now, I ask which scriptures say that God needs Satan? I have 
never maintained that God needed Satan. The world would have been 
better off had Satan not fallen. But, the simple fact is he did 
and we have. Who needs him? No one. 

You wrote 
“So the law of sin in the flesh is the ruler or prince of the 
power (flesh) of the air (breath).”  

The law of sin introduced in Genesis 3 by a fallen spiritual 
being Known as  Satan. 

On Luke 10:17 you wrote 
“As I understand it, those who hold to a fallen spiritual "satan" 
contend that this "satan" fell long before man was created.  If 
that is what you believe, can you explain why Christ would have 
responded to the disciples' statement of "even the devils are 
subject unto us through thy name" (Luke 10:17), at least 
thousands of years after the fact?”

Answer: Does this verse at anytime say when Jesus saw Satan fall? 
Jesus being active in the creation was there from the beginning 
and could have seen Satan fall at anytime before his, Christ, 
incarnation. No?

You state the New Covenant came in at Luke 10:17. 

Answer: If the New Covenant came in at that time, why did Christ 
have to be sacrificed? Was not the New Covenant the blood of 
Christ? You have the New Covenant coming in before Christ was 
sacrificed. Did the verse in Luke 10:17 happen before or after 
the writing of Hebrews? The writer of Hebrews wrote “n that he 
saith, A new Couenant, he hath made the first olde. Now that 
which decayeth and waxeth old, is readie to vanish away” (Hebrews 
8:13 KJV 1611). The Old Covenant was still intact here, but it 
was ready to vanish. The Old Jewish system only passed away in AD 
70. Did Luke 10:17 happen in AD 70?

In your long essay on Judaism,  you quoted the following verse: 

But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doeth not 
cast out deuils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the deuils 
(Matthew 12:24). 

Answer: Who was Jesus casting out?  Devils, demons, those that 
fell with Satan and continued with him.

You asked a series of questions. I asked a series that were never 
answered. I will answer yours:

Question - Do you believe people whose father is a spiritual 
fallen being can be disciples of Christ?  

Answer: Yes. For God sent not his Sonne into the world to 
condemne the  world: but that the world through him might be 
saued (John 3:17).

Was Christ just playing a mind game here or did He truly mean 
these Jews need to be set free of something?  Was Christ telling 
people whose father was a spiritual fallen angel they could have 
Him since He is the truth (John 14:6)?

Answer: Christ would only be playing mind games if he were in 
fact the Adversary as well as the Savior. The position you hold 
is one of mind games.

Do you believe children of a spiritual fallen would say they were 
never in captivity to any man? Was this bondage in the past or 
the present?

Answer: Jesus said they were of their father, the devil, who was 
the father of lies. Does not this answer from them bear that out? 
They had been in bondage, slavery, throughout their history, No? 
Egypt, Babylon, Assyria, Herod. Who do you believe Jesus or them?

Why would Christ tell them they were in bondage to sin since sin 
is the breaking of God's Law (1 John 3:4)?

Answer: I refer you to Genesis 3 where a fallen spiritual being 
introduced the breaking of God’s law to man.

Is not Christ saying, in so many words these Jews are in a house, 
whatever that is, with Him at least for now, but not for always 
if they continue to sin?  What "house" is Christ speaking of 
here?  What house will Christ and those whose Shepherd is the 
"Lord" abide or dwell in forever?  Have children of a fallen 
spiritual being ever been in such a house with Christ?

Answer: “For all haue sinned, and come short of the glory of God 
(Romans 3:23 KJV 1611)”

If these Jews are the children of a fallen spiritual being why is 
Christ stressing their believing in Him so they might be free?

Answer: God alone is the author of salvation. Do you believe that 
one who has followed a path of sin can be saved? Note the word in 
John 3:16 “whosoever” that signifies freewill. Being children of 
a fallen spiritual being is the equivalent of following the ways 
of or the influence of Satan: living in sin. Those who are living 
lives of sin are separated from God, thus they are children of 
Satan.

Question - Did not Christ tell these Jews in verses 31 & 32 that 
if they continued doing what they were doing, that is believing 
in Him they would have truth?

Answer: Jesus told the Jews that believed in Him. You have to 
keep in mind that knowing who Jesus is one thing, but Jesus was 
telling them that they must not just know who he is, but they 
must continue to walk in His ways.  I refer you to 1 John where 
John discusses sin and Habitual sin. 

Do you disagree that Christ said these Jews were sinners?

Answer: no, I refer you to Romans 3:23 quoted earlier.

Question - Can one be slave to a descendant that's been long dead 
before ones great-great-great grandfather was born? If not how 
could these Jews be slaves to Abraham when he was no longer 
alive? Please remember the context of verse 39.

Answer: “They answered, and said vnto him, Abraham is our father. 
Iesus sayth vnto them, If yee were Abrahams children, ye would 
doe the works of Abraham.” If they were the children of Abraham 
they would act as Abraham acted, they would reflect Abraham as 
Jesus is the image of the Father, GOD.

If Christ was not sent to anyone except Israel (Mat 15:24), why 
is He giving truth to children of a fallen spiritual being?

Answer: Were not these children of a fallen spiritual being the 
children of Israel? You are equating father as in a biological 
father and a spiritual father as being one in the same. Can one 
who sins, thus following the influence of Satan, not be a child 
of Israel also?

Why did the Jews change their response to Christ's statement 
about who their father is from Abraham to God if their physical 
lineage was the subject?  Why now would God be their only 
father?  What happened to Abraham?

Answer:  Note that they say “We be not borne of fornication.” 
They are a pure line. They are decended from Abraham, through 
Sarah (Born of the promise and not the law). Thus, they have the 
same spiritual father: GOD.

Question - Is Christ speaking of a physical lineage here?

Answer: In either case spiritual or physical they said they were 
of God, yet Jesus says if they were of God they would love Him. 

Could it be the reason there's so much confusion on these very 
verses that the same quandary exists today?

Answer: I don’t see the confusion of these verses.

Question - Does not the Bible say "lusts", lies, false 
accusations and murders come from within a person (Mat 15:18-
20)?  If so, then the "father" of these Jews must have been their 
flesh.

Answer: Why do you insist on not reading what the scriptures say: 
Ye are of your father the deuill, and the lusts of your father ye 
will doe (John 8:44).

I could say that each of the fruit of the spirit come from within 
a person, does that make one who displays the fruit have a father 
of the flesh also?

For man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh 
on the Heart (1 Sam. 16:7)

Now I ask you, would Judaism, not only today, but in Christ's day 
be an adversary of God and true Christianity in that it denies 
our God?

Answer: Christianity was not around at the time of Job.

Do we see anything here that says this "devil" is a fallen 
spiritual being?  No!  But what we have here is Jude speaking of 
the event in Zech 3:1-2:

Answer: Not sure how you cross reference Jude to Zech 3:

      There is no reference to Michael
      the body of Moses is not mentioned
      Satan was there to accuse Joshua
      The only similarities in the two story is “The Lord Rebuke 
Thee.

Again, you have failed to present a case that will hold up your 
affirmative. You have cross referenced scriptures out of context 
(Jude- Zech), the fact is Satan was real to Jesus.

Jesus did not say I saw “flesh” falling from the sky, Jesus said 
I saw Satan falling like lightening. Jesus recognized those who 
followed the ways of Satan: “Ye are of your father the deuill, 
and the lusts of your father ye will doe” Could Jesus not have 
said, “You are of your father the flesh?” He could have, but he 
chose to use the word Satan, a real entity, a fallen spiritual 
being that became the epitome of evil: Satan 

In Him,
Bobby Cohoon