Burgin/Cyrus Debate on Divorc/Remarriage

 
 
PROPOSITION: 
The Bible teaches that there is a distinction in single people, 
who are divorced, that avoids adultery in a further marriage.

Affirm:  Max Burgin
Deny: Doug Cyrus

Max says 
"There is much that I want to say about Doug's negatives, however 
I will leave it till I'm in the denial. For now I want to affirm 
that the Scriptures clearly teach the proposition: The Bible 
teaches that there is a distinction in single people, who are 
divorced, that avoids adultery in a further marriage."

Doug answers: 
What this means is that Max is not going to answer any of my 
arguments but will continue saying the same thing over and over 
again with no proof. If I hadn't ask him any questions he could 
have just used his second affirmative again.

LET'S LOOK AT MY QUESTIONS AND HIS RESPONSE TO THEM.

My first question was: 1) Does 1Cor. 7:27-28, which says "Are you 
bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a 
wife? Do not seek a wife. But even if you do marry, you have not 
sinned....", teach that a loosed person can marry without 
sinning?

Max's answer: 
Yes that is exactly, and precisely, what it clearly says.

My second question was: 2) Can a person who has been put away for 
committing fornication marry again without sinning?

Max's answer: 
 "OF COURSE..."
My third Question was: 3) What scriptures prove your answer to 
question number two above?

Max's answer: 
"Matt.19:9, 1Cor.7:2 & 27-28, Gen.2:18....."

My fourth question was: 4) Can God loose one party from a contract
without loosing both parties from the contract if He wants to?

Max's answer: 
"NO"

My fifth question was: (5) How can we tell if a person is loosed
if God does not tell us that they can marry without sinning (1Cor 7:27-28)?

Max's answer: 
"WE CAN'T, no argument can be made from silence....."

Throughout this discussion I have said the Bible teaches that a 
person who is "loosed" can marry without sinning (1Cor.7:27-28). 
We can see From Max's answer to my question (1) that he agrees 
with this. Two conclusions can be drawn from the idea that a 
person who is "loosed" can marry without sinning, these are: 1) 
If the Bible specifically states that a person is loosed we can 
know that they can marry without sinning. 2) If a person is shown 
to be able to marry without sinning we can know that they are 
loosed. For a person in any situation to be considered to be 
"loosed" the Bible must plainly say they are loosed or must say 
they can marry without sinning. I have shown from the Bible where 
a person who has put their spouse away for committing fornication 
and a person whose spouse has died can marry without sinning. It 
is obvious now that Max cannot do the same with a person who has 
been put away for committing fornication. Max has shown no flaw 
in this logic and continues to ignore it.

I would like to analyze Max's ideas to see if they scripturally 
prove that a put away fornicator is loosed and can therefore 
marry without sinning.

One of Max's ideas is that because there were SOME people at the 
Corinthian church who had been fornicators and adulterers (1Cor. 
6:9-11), and because God said to these people "Art thou bound 
unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? 
seek not a wife. But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and 
if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned (1Cor.7:27-28)" that God 
was telling these specific put away fornicators, and therefore 
all future put away fornicators, that they are loosed and can 
therefore marry without sinning. What is wrong with this idea?

(1) There is no way to show if any or all of the people who had 
been fornicators in Corinth had ever been married, were married 
at that time, or had been put away for their fornication. In 
other words you cannot tell from 1Cor. 6:9-11 if any of the 
fornicators in the Corinthian church were put away fornicators 
because this passage does not give us this information. Max just 
ASSUMES that the fornicators mentioned here are put away 
fornicators. I could as easily assume that the adulterers 
mentioned in this passage are put away fornicators, who had 
married again and were now committing adultery. Max is making an 
argument from silence which he voluntarily said should not be 
done when he answered my fifth question.

(2)  1Cor. 7:27-28 is not talking specifically to put away 
fornicators but a general statement to all the saints in Corinth 
that the letter was written to and who fit into the category or 
would ever fit into the category of being "loosed."  To make this 
perfectly clear I want to add that this passage, (1Cor. 7:27-28), 
does not address any specific situation of being  loosed. It does 
not say that the people who were loosed were loosed because they 
had never been married, had been married and their spouse had 
died, had put away their spouse for fornication or had been put 
away for committing fornication. You must go to other passages to 
determine if a person's situation has put them into the category 
of being loosed, so again he argues from silence.

(3) 1Cor. 7:27-28 also addresses people who are bound. Does this 
mean that all fornicators and adulterers mentioned in 1Cor. 6:9-
11 are bound? Not any more than it means all fornicators and 
adulterers mentioned in 1Cor. 6:9-11 are loosed.

Another one of Max's ideas he uses to prove that a put away 
fornicator is loosed and therefore has a scriptural right to 
marry is based solely on human reasoning. Max reasons that it is 
a necessary conclusion that if God allows a person to put their 
spouse away for fornication it looses both parties. It is purely 
human reasoning because he uses no scripture to prove this idea. 
What is wrong with this idea?

(1) To quote Max "no argument can be made from silence." I showed 
Max that we need authority for what we do and if no authority 
exist then we should not do it (Col. 3:17, Matt. 7:21-23). To 
this he has not responded.

(2) I gave Max an example of a human contract to illustrate that 
just because one party is released from a contract does not 
necessarily mean that both parties are released from all the 
obligations they agreed to in the contract. One party could still 
owe a duty to the other party. To this he has not responded 
either.

(3) My question  4) to Max was "Can God loose one party from a 
contract without loosing both parties from the contract if He 
wants to?" Max's answer: "NO." Max believes so strongly, with no 
Bible passages to prove his point, that when one party to a 
marriage contract is loosed both parties are loosed, that he is 
willing to say God could not do this even if He wanted to. The 
creator of the universe who made all the planets, stars and moons 
in one day cannot "loose one party from a contract without 
loosing both parties from the contract if He wants to." If this 
is true we, as humans, can hold one party to a contract and loose 
the other but God can't. I guess that makes us more powerful than 
God according to Max. This answer brings God down to a level 
lower than man and is therefore blasphemous to God. Max has left 
no place in his mind that would even allow a possibility that one 
party could be bound to a part of their agreement when the other 
party has been totally loosed. I will say again "there is no 
reason to necessarily conclude that if one party is loosed both 
parties are loosed from a contract."

If you combine my second and third questions and Max's answers to 
them we see that Max believes the Bible passages of "Matt.19:9, 
1Cor.7:2 & 27-28, Gen.2:18....." teach that a put away fornicator 
can marry without sinning. Let's look at these passages and see 
if any of them teach that a put away fornicator can marry without 
sinning.

1)Mt 19:9 "And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, 
except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth 
adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit 
adultery." This passage says nothing to the effect that a put 
away fornicator can marry without sinning. I personally believe 
it says that a put away fornicator does sin when marrying but I 
will discuss this in my first affirmative.

2)1Cor. 7:2 "Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each 
man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband." 
There is one thing and one thing only that joins two people in 
marriage and that is a binding agreement, a contract, between the 
two parties. This passage teaches that a person has the right to 
be in a marriage contract with their own spouse. This implies 
that they cannot be in a marriage contract with someone else's 
spouse. The words wife and husband are singular in this passage 
and imply that a person can be in a contractual relationship with 
one person and no more. It does not say, nor imply, that a person 
who has been put away for fornication can marry without sinning.

3) 1Cor. 7:27-28 "Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be 
loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. But even 
if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, 
she has not sinned." This passage is more fully explained above. 
While this passage does say that a loosed person can marry 
without sinning it does not specifically say who are loosed and 
who are not. This passage doesn't tell us if a man or woman whose 
spouse has died is loosed any more than it says that a person who 
has been put away for fornication is loosed.

4) Gen. 2:18 "And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man 
should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him." If this 
verse was the only verse God gave on this subject it would 
authorize any one in any situation who is "alone" to have a 
spouse. What proves too much proves nothing at all. This verse is 
not a part of the covenant (contract) we now have with God, so we 
have no duty to God based on this verse.

Concerning my question five (listed above) and Max's answer to it 
we see that Max agrees that "WE CAN'T"  tell if a person is 
loosed if God does not tell us that they can marry without 
sinning (1Cor 7:27-28)? EVEN THOUGH HE SAYS THIS HE DOES NOT GIVE 
US ONE BIBLE PASSAGE SAYING THAT  A PERSON WHO HAS BEEN PUT AWAY 
FOR FORNICATION CAN MARRY WITHOUT SINNING.

I am beginning to believe that I am discussing this topic with 
myself. Max just keeps saying what he does over and over again 
and does not answer my arguments against his proposition. It has 
become obvious to me that Max has a mind set. He has thought 
about all the things he says in this debate over and over again 
in his mind so many times that he now does not have the ability 
to look outside of the box he has "thought" himself into. In 
other words, he can no longer hear the truth on this subject 
because when anything is said that contradicts his mind set he 
just shifts his mind back to his comfortable thoughts and ignores 
the contradictions. Therefore, he does not answer my arguments. 
This shifting of the mind, in some cases, can happen so fast that 
the person does not even know that they do it. Jesus said "He who 
has ears to hear, let him hear! It is hard to see how a person's 
mind is stuck till you talk to them for a while but after the 
pattern goes around several times you begin see it. It is easier 
to see a person who has their mind stuck in time. Let me give you 
an example of someone who has their mind stuck in time. If you 
see a person who is about sixty or older, has long side burns 
with an Elvis hair cut, that at this point is beginning to thin 
on top and has been died coal black, and wears a t-shirt with 
Camel cigarettes rolled up in one of the sleeves you can bet that 
they have a mind set that is stuck in the fifties. They do not 
know or do not care that the world has changed around them. I do 
not make this observation to be mean to Max. I make it because 
sometimes confronting someone will help break the pattern and get 
them to doubt (humble) themselves enough so that they can begin 
to hear. They then can go outside of the box they have put 
themselves into, look back into the box and analyze their 
thoughts as to whether they are true or not. Unfortunately, most 
of the time this kind of person has been told this before in one 
way or another by a friend or family member and they choose to 
ignore it. Question: Have you ever been told this before Max?

Yours in Christ
Doug Cyrus