Windham/Mowery Debate on Who is Subject to the Gospel

 
 
 Proposition: 
 Like the old covenant, the new covenant is only for the physical descendants of 
the twelve tribes of Israel.

Affirm: Brian Windham
Deny:  Dub Mowery

Thank you Mr. Mowery for your thoughts and much food to be digested. I pray 
the Father will give me the ability to respond to your rebuttal with words that, not 
only will clarify my position, but will edify all concerned in this debate, 
especially myself.

I do confirm Mr. Mowery's conclusion that I am not Jewish, but Christian. I also 
am not a physical descendant of any Jews that I am aware of. If the New 
Covenant (NC) is with the same people the Old Covenant (OC) was with and 
these people are considered Christians, then regardless of how one refers to these 
people they would have to be Christians. Would they not?

However if it's OK with you Mr. Mowery I'll not respond to the remainder of your 
statements about my standing in light of the covenants in order to concentrate on 
the subject of whether the NC is with the same people the OC was with. I pray 
you take no offense, as none is intended, and I do appreciate your concern for my 
Spiritual welfare. However my spiritual condition has no bearing on whom the 
New Covenant is with in my estimation.

I do agree with Mr. Mowery, for the most part, that God "speaks" to us through 
His Word, the Bible. I agree He does not, as far as I know, speak audibly to 
anyone. And I also agree that He does tell us, in His Word, the Bible, with whom 
He made the NC.

I agree with Mr. Mowery that the theme of the Bible is not about one nation. 
However, I say the theme of the Bible, whatever one thinks that is, deals with one 
nation of people from the 12th chapter of Genesis to the end. The only time 
anyone other than Israel is mentioned is when they come into contact with Israel.

It seems Mr. Mowery believes that the well known verse of John 3:16 is evidence 
that the Bible is to and about people other than Israel. I must conclude he believes 
this because of the words, "whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but 
have everlasting life."

But I contend Mr. Mowery is taking for granted that the word "whosoever" 
applies to people other than Israel without proving it. We must take each thing 
said in the Bible in the context of the entire Bible to grasp the meaning. For 
instance, if taken literally, John 3:16 means that "everlasting life" is dependant on 
nothing but believing in the Son of God.

However I don't think Mr. Mowery would agree that we can take the verse 
literally. The reason being is because nothing is mentioned of repentance or 
baptism, which Peter, in Acts 2:38, said was necessary to receive the gift of the 
Holy Spirit. We must deduce by other passages exactly what "believing in Him" 
entails.

After all we find the Jews of John 8 believing in Christ (v. 30). Yet Christ, 
Himself, said "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed." So we 
see there's more to being a disciple of Christ or inheriting eternal life than just 
believing. We must take the verse in the context of the entire Bible.

The same is true with the word "whosoever." To determine who can fit into the 
"whosoever" label, we must understand several things. We must understand to 
whom Christ was speaking. We must understand of what Christ was speaking. To 
simply apply the word "whosoever" to cover every person on the globe as I 
"assume", (please correct me if I'm wrong Mr. Mowery) Mr. Mowery infers is 
being referred to in John 3:16, is to do so without Bible authority.

Who can come to Jesus? Only those the Father "draws" (John 6:44). Can anyone 
other than those whom the Father draws come to Christ? Of course not! Who is 
called? The Bible says "many", but not everyone (Mat 22:14). Therefore can 
those other than the "many" be called? And of those not called can they be a part 
of the "whosoever" in John 3:16? I don't think so!

If the president of a club, speaking of a work project, announces to the club, 
"whosoever has tools we can use on this project, is requested to bring them to the 
project", would one just take for granted the president of that club was speaking 
of anyone on the globe, country, state, city or even the block? Of course not! They 
would know automatically the president was speaking of just those members of 
that club. We must apply the same logic to the Bible.

To whom was Christ speaking? To an Israelite named Nicodemus, a Judahite 
(Jew) and therefore an Israelite (John 3:1, 10). To whom did Jesus say the Father 
sent Him only? To Israel (Mat 15:24). To whom is the NC with? Israel (Heb 8:8-
10)! Therefore how can John 3:16 be about anyone other than to whom Christ was 
sent?

Mr. Mowery also seems to think the phrase "all men" in 1 Tim 2:4, which says 
"[God] will have all men to be saved" must mean every man on the globe. If God 
willed all men, as in every person on the globe, to be saved, why doesn't He call 
every man? The phrase "all men" can be found in other verses, e.g., 3 John 1:12, 
which says, "Demetrius hath good report of all men..."

Are we to believe that all men on the globe gave a good report of Demetrius? Of 
course not! "All men" that knew Demetrius that had spoken of him to Paul is who 
is being referred to here.

Another example is in 2 Tim 4:16, which says, "At my first answer...all men 
forsook me." Is Paul speaking of "all men" on the globe? Of course not! He's 
speaking of "all men" he was talking to at the time.

One more example would be in 2 Cor 9:7, which has the same Greek phrase but is 
translated "every man" in lieu of "all men." That passage says, "Every man 
according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give..." Is this verse speaking of 
every man on the globe? No! It's speaking of those in Corinth that are in the 
"church."

Therefore we must take the "all men" phrase in its context. And in the context of 
1 Tim 2:4, we must believe that the phrase "all men" refers to those God has 
called for if they aren't called, they can't be saved. And since Christ was sent to 
Israel only, those called must by necessity be Israelites.

Mr. Mowery speaks of when the OC was to end seemingly as if I believe it's still 
in effect. I want to make it clear that I do not believe the OC is still in effect. It 
has been replaced or updated, if you will, by the NC. I have no argument with Mr. 
Mowery on this point.

Mr. Mowery says I have presented an incomplete picture of who is subject to the 
NC when I gave the Scriptures that say Christ was sent only to Israel, Christ sent 
His disciples only to Israel and the NC was only with Israel. After making that 
statement he "compares" this to Abraham insisting his wife introduce herself to 
Pharaoh and Abimelech as his sister. I fail to understand the "comparison." 
Perhaps, Mr. Mowery, you can deliberate a bit on this for my benefit so that I 
might respond to it with a bit of understanding.

Mr. Mowery then states, 
"All humanity (both physical Israel and Gentiles) is subject to the new covenant", 
but he doesn't give Scripture for this claim. To whom the NC was to be with is 
given twice in the Bible. Once in Jer 31:31-33 and again in Heb 8:8-10. Both of 
the accounts say virtually the same thing. I would like to look at the latter in more 
detail please (words in caps are for emphasis only):

(Heb 8:8-10 KJV) "...Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I WILL 
MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH 
THE HOUSE OF JUDAH...{10} For THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL 
MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL ..."

Mr. Mowery, do you see anyone mentioned in that passage other than Israelites 
with whom God said He would make a "New Covenant?" If not, how can you 
think that the NC is with anyone else? Can you present Scripture showing God 
saying His New Covenant is with anyone else?

Mr. Mowery you say, 
"Brian, you fail to properly handle aright and rightly divide the truth, 2 Tim. 
2:15)."

I would appreciate your demonstrating exactly how I am guilty of this charge. Did 
Christ not say He was sent only to Israel? Did not Christ tell His disciples to go 
only to Israel? Is not the NC as stated in either Jer 31:31-33 or Heb 8:8-10 with 
only Israelites?

You asked, 
"Do you understand that the New Testament and the new covenant is one and the 
same thing?"

I understand that the commencing of the NC is in the NT. However, the OC was 
still in effect for part of the NT. I understand the NT is the fulfilling of many 
prophecies, e.g., Hosea 1:10-11; Eze 37:16-25 & Jer 50:4-5. However I do not 
believe that the entire NT is the NC. The NT is mostly about happenings under 
that Covenant, but it's not in and of itself, the NC.

You asked, 
"If you do not, then how can you profess to be a Christian unless you are Jewish 
by race?"

Again I fail to understand what my status has to do with the subject at hand. I do 
not present my argument on what I am, but by what the Scriptures say.

Mr. Mowery you say, 
the Jews were not prepared during the personal ministry of Jesus Christ to accept 
Gentiles as equals before God. Therefore, the Son of God stated, ".I am not sent 
but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel".

In the Mat 15:24 passage I see nothing about the unpreparedness of Jews. What I 
see is a Canaanite woman pressing Christ to heal her daughter (v. 22). But Christ 
doesn't even speak to her (v. 23). When she persists, the Disciples ask Him to 
send her away (v. 23). And Christ says, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of 
the house of Israel" (v. 24). Then she came and begged Him saying "help me." (v. 
25). To which Christ said, "It is not meet to take the children's bread, and cast it to 
dogs (v. 26)."

Christ implied the woman was a "dog" and not an Israelite. Did the woman deny 
this? No! She said, "Truth, Lord...(v. 27)!

I ask you Mr. Mowery, how does this event have anything to do with the 
preparedness of the Jews? There's no "Jews" other than the Disciples, mentioned! 
If He was sent to non-Israelites, why wouldn't He speak to the woman? Was 
Christ telling the truth or not? If He was sent to people other than Israel, would 
He not be lying?

You say this is also the reason Christ sent His Disciples only to Israel in Mat 
10:5-6). Mr. Mowery, this seems to be speculation. Can you present Scripture to 
this end? What preparedness did the non-Israelites have? Why would they be even 
as prepared as Israel?