Warner/Jackson Debate on Tradition as Religious Authority

 
 
 Proposition: 
 Both Scripture and Oral Tradition are authoritative for the Church in matters of doctrine.
 
 Affirm:  Matt Warner
 Deny: George A. Jackson
 
 
 Matt: 
 Now, since this is my last affirmation, let me recap the points that I have been trying to share: 
 
 1. First, according to the Scriptures, the first Christians followed both the written and oral 
 teachings of the Apostles, and considered both to be authoritative.  (This point was affirmed by 
 George in his first rebuttal.)  This is important, for if we are to be faithful to the Scriptures and the 
 practice of the first Christians, we must also follow both the written and oral teachings of the 
 Apostles as they did.
 
 George:
 Note here, that Matt makes the statement 
 "we must also follow both the written and oral teachings of the Apostles as they did." 
 
 This obviously is physically impossible for us to do today, unless all the apostles were still living, 
 or we could be transported back to the first century.     
 
 Matt 
 2. Second, according to historical evidence from the early Christians, the Church, after the death 
 of the Apostles, continued to follow both the written and oral teachings of the Apostles, and 
 considered both to be authoritative.  In fact, there is no evidence at all that the Church believed 
 that Scripture alone is authoritative.  (This point was basically ignored by George.)   This point is 
 important, for it shows that the "Scripture only" belief is not Apostolic in origin.  For if it was, we 
 would see some evidence of it in the writings of the early Christians, and we would see evidence 
 of condemnations against those who followed both Scripture and Tradition. But the fact is that we 
 do not see either of these things. 
 
 In fact, there is no evidence at all that the Church believed that Scripture alone is authoritative.  
 (This point was basically ignored by George.)
 
 George:
 The reason it was ignored was because this is my affirmative. But not what the "Church believed" 
 but what the Bible teaches.
    
 Matt:
 This point is important, for it shows that the "Scripture only" belief is not Apostolic in origin.  For 
 if it was, we would see some evidence of it in the writings of the early Christians, and we would 
 see evidence of condemnations against those who followed both Scripture and Tradition.  But the 
 fact is that we do not see either of these things.
 
 George:
 But now you will see from the Bible itself the "evidence of condemnations against those who 
 followed both Scripture and Tradition."
 
 The word "tradition" is not found one time in the Old Testament. The Holy Spirit never spoke of 
 "Tradition" only the "word of the LORD." It is found only eleven times in the New Testament. 
 The word "traditions" is found only two times in the New Testament. And here they are. Read 
 them carefully to find what Jesus and the apostles thought of "Scriptures and Tradition"
 
 From Matthew 15 (KJV)
 2 
 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when 
 they eat bread.
 
 George: 
 Jesus and His disciples are being condemned by the Pharisees and scribes for not following the 
 "tradition of the elders" 
 
 3 
 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your 
 tradition?
 
 George: 
 But Jesus, being a genius brings things to their highest level, straightway asked them why they 
 "transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?" Good question!   
 6 
 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of 
 God of none effect by your tradition. 
 
 George: 
 Just what is wrong with "tradition"? It debases the word of God. It is not "equal" with God's 
 written word, but tries to be, but my doing so it makes God's word "of none effect" on the people. 
 Jesus at no time in His short time here on earth praised "Tradition" but consistently condemned it. 
 
 Now lets look at the Gospel according to Mark 
 
 Mark 7. 
  3 
 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition 
 of the elders.
 
 5 
 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of 
 the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
 
 George: 
 Take note that Jesus did not answer this question but said to them: "... Well hath Esaias prophesied 
 of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far 
 from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
 
 George:
 Isaiah had well prophesied of these "hypocrites", who pretended to honor God with their lips, but 
 their heart was cold toward God. and had substituted "tradition" for the word of God.
 
 8 
 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots 
 and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
 
 George: 
 Jesus continues His condemnation: One thing is clear in this teaching of Christ. That in the church, 
 in our obedience to God, in our worship to God. It must be "as written," other words, it must be 
 Scripture, not Tradition. Authority in all we do and say must be by the word of God. Not by 
 "Tradition". Tradition has added many things to many churches which God has never authorized. 
 And this virus is now invading the Lord's church. Jeremiah wrote many years ago:  "O LORD, I 
 know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." 
 (Jer.10:23)  Solomon wrote many years ago too,  "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean 
 not unto thine own understanding." (Prov.3:5).  God in His Wisdom did not see fit to leave it to 
 man to direct, through his subjective five senses to guide his own way when it comes to the path 
 man must walk to please God his creator. And that is what "tradition" leads man to do. Where has 
 God commanded all of the things man are doing in the name of the Lord? Through what one may 
 call "tradition,"numerous innovations have been added to the church and worship without one "as 
 written" Jesus here in these passages warns and condemns these "tradition" that corrupt the 
 worship and word of God.     
 9 
 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own 
 tradition.
 
 George: 
 Man today continues to "reject the commandment of God" by their tradition. And God will reject 
 them, unless they repent. One "tradition" of man is infant baptism. By rejection the command to 
 repent and be baptized" (Acts 2:38), They have added a "tradition" without Biblical authority from 
 any apostle.
 
 13 
 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many 
 such like things do ye.
 
 George: 
 Jesus here points out that they have made God's word of none effect through their tradition, and 
 adds "and many such like things (infant baptism) do ye.
 
 Now lets hear what the apostle Paul has to say about the "tradition of men"   
 
 Colossians 2:8 
 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after 
 the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
 
 George: 
 In this, Paul is in perfect harmony with Christ in the repeated condemnation of the "Tradition" of 
 the Pharisees and scribes. In the modem church man has added many traditions that one cannot 
 find in the Scriptures of the writings of the apostles. We have no "oral Tradition" today, simple 
 because we have no living apostles! 
 
 2 Thessalonians 3:6
 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw 
 yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he 
 received of us.
 
 George: 
 Paul is writing about a brother that is "walking disorderly" that Paul had previously given verbal 
 instruction. (teaching) Before the New Testament was written. Nothing to do with "Oral 
 Tradition" handed down through generations of the church.
 
 1 Peter 1:18 
 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from 
 your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
 
 George:
 Peter has nothing good to say about "Tradition" as one can plainly see!  
 
 Traditions:
 
 Galatians 1:14 
 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more 
 exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
 
 George: 
 Paul is speaking here of the way he was so zealous of the tradition of the Jews that he even 
 "persecuted the church of God" (vs 13). Don't think this a good verse for one who believes in 
 "tradition"!
 
 Now we come to the only verse that Matt quoted to prove his affirmative. Lets look at it closely.
 
 2 Thessalonians 2:15 
 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by 
 word, or our epistle.
 
 The "brethren" were to "stand fast" and "hold the Traditions which ye have been taught" (Past 
 tense) whether by "word," or our "epistle." Traditions" here is the teachings given by apostles 
 orally, before the written word was available to all Christians. Once the completed revelation: the 
 New Testament was written and after the death of the inspired apostles there was no more "oral" 
 revelation (traditions) teachings) given to anyone. God had completed His will for mankind and 
 forbid anyone to add to it. (Rev. 22:18,19).  
 
 Matt:
 3.  And finally, we can know the reliability of the oral Tradition in the same way that we can know 
 the reliability of the written Scriptures. We can have confidence that oral Tradition is reliable on 
 the basis of our faith in God's ability to protect it, and on the basis of the evidences of history.  The 
 historical evidence shows that the Apostolic Tradition is the same in every church in every 
 location, and that it was consistently and faithfully passed down from generation to generation.
 
 George:
 Matt here basically reaffirms and restates his proposition that "oral Tradition" is equal with the 
 Scriptures as written. He gave no proof from Scripture. He gave us a verse (2 Thess 2:15) which 
 does prove that the inspired apostles taught both by written word and by the spoken word to the 
 first Christians. But gave us no proof that God gave uninspired men the same authority as He gave 
 the apostles of the Lord to speak forth the word of God, (after the death of the apostles.) down 
 through the ages of the church. As far as "Tradition" is concern I gave many scriptures where 
 Jesus, Paul and Peter condemned it. There is no mention of it in the Old Testament. All the verses 
 where the word is mention except one, condemns it. And finally, Matt gives not one example of an 
 "Oral Tradition"
 
 By His Love And Grace
 George