Billingsly/Benton Debate on The Gospels

Terry Benton's First Affirmative

Proposition:
The scriptures teach that one will be blessed today who obeys Jesus' righteous principles for His
kingdom described to some extent in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John in the parts of their
documents that describe what Jesus said before He died on the cross.

Affirm: Terry Benton
Deny: Dan Billingsly

BENTON:

I thank you for reading this debate. I will try to be as clear and to the point as I can be, and I hope
that Dan will be forthright in answering each point and each question I raise concerning the issues
at hand.

First, I would like to define my proposition as follows:

1. The scriptures teach. The 66 books of the Bible give forth statements and implications that give us the ability to
learn and conclude.

2... that one will be blessed today ... We will reap blessings in this time, this gospel age, this New
Testament age, this age of the kingdom of Christ.

3....who obeys Jesus' righteous principles for His kingdom... Those righteous principles He taught,
that He said must be true of those entering and living in His kingdom.

4....described to some extent in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John... means that all of Jesus'
righteous principles are not described in these four books, but that some of them are found in these
four books.

5....in the parts of their documents that describe what Jesus said before He died on the cross. Parts
of these documents, that were written by these four New Testament Christians, describe what
Jesus said before He died on the cross. There are things Jesus said before the cross that have
application to his kingdom, and we will be blessed if we obey these righteous principles.

Dan's Denial Means

In order for Dan to successfully deny this proposition, he must either:

1. Take the position (which he already has) that one will be cursed or fall from grace who follows
Jesus' words on ANY point found expressed in Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John in those sections
that describe what Jesus or the editorial writer said before the writer got to the part about Jesus'
death.

2. Take the position that Jesus did not set forth any righteous principles for His kingdom.

3. Take the position that Jesus did not set forth any righteous principles as described in the early
parts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John.

It seems to me, that Dan has his hands full, just as he did in his affirmative, when he affirmed that
there were BOOKS "before the cross". He never proved that proposition, and it is certain that he
will not be successful in denying my proposition set forth above.

Proof of My Proposition

1. Jno.14:25,26 says:

25 "These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all
things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. NKJV

There are several points I want you to see in these two verses:

a. Jesus had spoken things about love and obedience (see verses 23-24) "while being present with
you" (Matthew and John were there at the time, though they had written no books at the time
before the cross).

b. These things were spoken BEFORE Jesus went to the cross.

c. The Helper, the Holy Spirit would later come and "teach you all things". He came on the first
Pentecost after the resurrection of Jesus. He began to teach them "all things".

d. The Holy Spirit would also, in the New Testament age, "bring to your remembrance all things
that Jesus said" to them.

e. Therefore, what Jesus said to them, such as loving Him and keeping His word, would be
brought to their remembrance by the Holy Spirit in the NEW TESTAMENT and in the New
Testament age.

f. Therefore, what Jesus taught the apostles had application to them in the New Testament age.

g. Later, many years after Pentecost, many years after the Holy Spirit came, Matthew, Mark, Luke,
and John were guided by the Holy Spirit to write their respective books.

h. The Holy Spirit guided them into all truth and reminded them of the "all things that Jesus had
said unto them".

i. The Old Testament had long been nailed to the cross when MMLJ wrote under the guidance of
the Holy Spirit in the New Testament age.

j. Therefore, the apostles would be "blessed"(see my proposition above) if they recalled Jesus'
words to love Him and keep His words, the very words He had "spoken to you while being present
with you".

k. Therefore, MMLJ were guided in the New Testament age to "remember" Jesus' words so that
we could all be "blessed" in believing them and in obeying them.

My reasoning above is factual, truthful on each point, and therefore my proposition is proven. Dan
will have his hands full in trying to deny any of these points. But, he MUST deny them with truth
or scriptural logic. If he fails to address and answer these points, then the reader will know that he
failed on his affirmative proposition, AND they will know that he could not be on the side of truth
in denying my proposition.

With Jno.14:25 clearly in mind, especially "these things I HAVE SPOKEN to you WHILE
BEING PRESENT WITH YOU", I want the reader to notice that Jesus had SPOKEN these things
to them BEFORE He went to the cross.

2. Heb.2:3,4 "... how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to
be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, 4 God also bearing
witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according
to His own will? NKJV

This passage agrees with Jno.14:25,26. It affirms that:

a. There were things SPOKEN by Jesus.

b. There were those who HEARD Him. These were the apostles and a few others.

c. The ones who HEARD Him confirmed to us (those living in the New Testament age, and after
the Pentecost of Acts 2) what Jesus SPOKE.

d. The Holy Spirit was helping them to bear witness to what Jesus SPOKE.

e. The Holy Spirit was going to recall what Jesus SPOKE "while present with them"(per Jno.14:25,26).

f. Jesus spoke of "great salvation" and we, in this age, are not to "neglect" what Jesus SPOKE.

g. Therefore, we will be "blessed" today if we will not neglect but obey what Jesus SPOKE while He was here before
He died on the cross.

Each point above is sound, logical, and scriptural. Dan will have to show where we missed the
point of this verse and Jno.14:25,26. If his logic is unsound and does not logically answer what we
have observed so far, then you will know that Dan has failed on both propositions, His own and
this one. If he fails to answer these matters, you will know that he is a false teacher, and that he is
causing people to "neglect so great salvation that was first SPOKEN by the Lord".

3. Jno.12:47-50:

47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to
judge the world but to save the world.
48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I
have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command,
what I should say and what I should speak.
50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the
Father has told Me, so I speak." NKJV

I call the honest reader to observe that Heb.2:3-4 show that the "great salvation" was first
SPOKEN by the Lord Jesus. John observes that Jesus said that He came to "save the world" and
that the words He had SPOKEN will judge those who reject Him in the last day. John observes
further that Jesus said that whatever He spoke came from the Father to provide EVERLASTING
LIFE (the "so GREAT SALVATION" of Heb.2:3). From these verses we observe:

a. That Jesus SPOKE words before the cross that had the power to give everlasting life.

b. That Jesus SPOKE words before the cross that had the power to save the WORLD.

c. That Jesus SPOKE words that will JUDGE those who do not know Him or believe in Him.

d. That Jesus SPOKE of "so GREAT SALVATION" that has been "confirmed to US by those who
heard Him".

e. That Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John have confirmed to us the GREAT SALVATION of which
Jesus SPOKE.

f. That the Holy Spirit would combine "all things that Jesus SPOKE unto them" with "all things"
that they yet needed to know. Jno.14:25,26 with Heb.2:3,4.

g. The Holy Spirit would come AFTER the cross and beginning on the first Pentecost after Jesus'
resurrection, and He would "bring to their remembrance all that Jesus had SPOKEN" before the
cross, and the Holy Spirit would combine that which was SPOKEN to them before the cross with
that which they needed to know afterwards, and the Holy Spirit would have them to speak and
write of those things.

h. The Holy Spirit intended that these sermons and books be written AFTER the Old Testament
was nailed to the cross.

i. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit intended that "the world", not just the Jews, be able to benefit
from the blessings of Jesus' words before the cross.

j. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit intended that the words of Jesus be recalled in the New
Testament age to bless "the world", not just the Jews.

k. Therefore, the words of Jesus, as conveyed to us after the cross through the Spirit-guided
writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, will bless those who obey Him, and will JUDGE and
condemn those who do not believe and obey them.

l. Therefore, "The scriptures teach that one will be blessed today who obeys Jesus' righteous
principles for His kingdom described to some extent in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John". My
proposition is proven to be true.

In order to successfully deny the evidence set forth, Dan will have to:

1. Prove that the GREAT SALVATION was NOT first SPOKEN by the Lord and confirmed to
US by those who heard Him.

2. Prove that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were not "confirming to US" the great salvation first
SPOKEN by the Lord.

3. Prove that Jesus did NOT "come to SAVE THE WORLD" (Jno.12:47).

4. Prove that Jesus did not SPEAK essential words before the cross that needed to be recalled by
Holy Spirit assistance after the cross because they pertained to "so great salvation".

5. Prove that all Jesus did was comment on the law of Moses and that whoever listens to and
obeys even ONE thing Jesus said before the cross, will fall from grace, and be obligated to keep
the whole law of Moses.

6. Prove that even if the apostles' "kept Jesus' words" (Jno.14:23) after the cross, which was only a
day or so after Jesus told them to keep His words, they would thereby be obligated to keep ALL
the law of Moses, be condemned instead of saved, would fall from grace, and be cursed.

7. Prove that the keeping of any of Jesus' words spoken before the cross will not save or give
eternal life, and that the apostles and Holy Spirit did us all a disservice by recalling them after the
cross in the four books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

I will add that the "title page" of 1486 did not do anything to confuse us, because the HOLY
SPIRIT did all the harm by REVEALING these four books long AFTER the cross.(If we accept
Dan's teaching).

Friends, neither the Holy Spirit, nor the "title page", has done anything to confuse us. All
confusion comes from Dan. NO ONE ever taught what Dan is now teaching. No one was ever
confused about the Holy Spirit revealing the four gospels long after the Old Testament was nailed
to the cross. Therefore, it was no confusion at all when all inspired writings in the New Testament
age were acknowledged by a "title page". The only confusion is when one hears Dan put his twist
on these books of the Bible.

4. John 16:1-4
"These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble.
2 They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will
think that he offers God service.
3 And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me.
4 But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of
them. And these things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you.
NKJV

There are several things I want you to observe from this passage as we combine it with Heb.2:3,4.:

a. Jesus wanted the apostles to remember what He told them BEFORE the cross.

b. Even though these particular things were spoken BEFORE THE CROSS, they were not the
things Jesus said to them "at the beginning".

c. The things Jesus said "at the beginning"(Jno.16:4) was when JESUS WAS WITH THEM.

d. The Hebrews writer said that the "GREAT SALVATION" was SPOKEN by the Lord AT
FIRST. Even if this salvation was not EXPERIENCED until Pentecost, it was still SPOKEN by
the Lord AT FIRST. But, the BEGINNING was when Jesus was WITH THEM before the cross.

e. Jesus wanted them to remember His words AFTER the cross because His words before the
cross would have the power to strengthen them and keep them from stumbling.

f. But, Dan would have us believe that the keeping of Jesus' words would MAKE THEM AND US
TO STUMBLE.

g. The scriptures teach that one will be blessed today who obeys Jesus' righteous principles for His
kingdom described to some extent in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John in the parts of their
documents that describe what Jesus said before He died on the cross.

Thus, again, I have proven my proposition.

In order for Dan to successfully deny the evidence set forth, he will have to prove:

1. All Jesus talked about before the cross was how to keep the law of Moses.

2. That all of Jesus' words before the cross, as mere explanations of the law of Moses, can have no
bearing or carry any obligations to those who lived after the cross.

3. That Jesus' words spoken before the cross were all nailed to the cross.

4. That if the apostles kept anything Jesus said before the cross, they would thereby be obligated to
keep the whole law of Moses and come under the curse if they failed in one point.

5. That nothing Jesus said before the cross could bless anyone after the cross.

5. John 16:12-13

12 I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will
not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things
to come. NKJV

From this passage we make the following observations:

a. Jesus told them SOME things before the cross that He wanted them to "remember" after the
cross.

b. There were still other things that had to wait till the Spirit came.

c. When the Spirit came, He would guide them into ALL TRUTH.

d. All truth included the things Jesus SPOKE WHILE BEING PRESENT with them
(Jno.14:25,26) along with the things He "still" yet had to say to them.

e. The things spoken before the cross would be combined with later revelations.

f. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John give us some things BEFORE and AFTER the cross that Jesus
SPOKE to them.

g. They "confirm to us" the GREAT SALVATION which "at the first" was SPOKEN by the Lord.

h. Therefore, the words of Jesus before and after the cross would be combined by the Holy Spirit
to bless them and us.

i. Therefore, my proposition is proven to be true that says,

The scriptures teach that one will be blessed today who obeys Jesus' righteous principles for His
kingdom described to some extent in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John in the parts of their
documents that describe what Jesus said before He died on the cross.

Some of these four writings describe what Jesus said to them before the cross and some of these
books talk about what Jesus said to them after the cross. But, ALL of these books were written
AFTER the cross to bless those in the New Testament age who heard Jesus' words of salvation.

6. 1 Cor 11:23-26
23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same
night in which He was betrayed took bread;
24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "Take, eat; this is My body which is
broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me."
25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in
My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He
comes. NKJV

There are several observations I want to make from this passage of scripture.

a. The command to eat the bread in remembrance of Jesus was based on what Jesus commanded
BEFORE THE CROSS and "on the night in which He was betrayed".

b. Paul explained that as often as we do what Jesus said before the cross, we "proclaim the Lord's
death till He comes".

c. The churches after the cross are doing what Jesus commanded before the cross.

d. We are NOT keeping the LAW OF MOSES when we do so.

e. If there is ONE thing we do that is based on what Jesus, not Moses, said before the cross, then it
is not the case that all Jesus could do before the cross is explain the law of Moses.

f. Those who do what Jesus commanded in Matt.26:26-29 will NOT be obligated to do ALL that
the LAW OF MOSES requires.

g. Those who "do this in His remembrance" will not be cursed, but will be blessed.

h. Therefore, if ONE thing Jesus commanded before the cross can be a BINDING "prophecy" (as
Dan wants to call it), then MORE things can be bound that are not tied to the shadows of the law
of Moses.(Col.2:14f)

i. But, there are MANY things Jesus taught that were not taught by or tied to the law of Moses.
Let us consider some of them:

1) Except you be born again, born of the water and the Spirit, you will not see the kingdom of
God. Jno.3:1-5. This was not taught by the law of Moses.

2) Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.
Jno.6:53. I challenge Dan to show us where the law of Moses taught this.

3) "If you do not believe that I am He (the Messiah), you will die in your sins"(Jno.8:24). While
the law of Moses taught that the Messiah was coming, where did it say to believe that JESUS was
the one?

4) A new commandment I give to you (Jno.13:34). Where was it already taught in the law of
Moses? And if it was already taught in the law of Moses, why did Jesus say it was a "new
commandment"?

5) Abide in Me and I in you (Jno.15:4). Where did the law of Moses tell anyone to abide in Jesus
and let Jesus abide in them?

6) Teach those you baptize to "observe all things that I have commanded you"(Matt.28:20).
What things had Jesus already previously commanded them?

The Beginning of the Gospel

Mark writes that:

1) The BEGINNING of the gospel started with Jesus' ministry right after John came preaching that
the kingdom of heaven was at hand. (Mark 1:1f)

2) Mark writes his book AFTER the apostles "went out and preached everywhere"(Mark 16:20).
But, they did not go out "everywhere" until after the scattering of Acts 8.

3) Therefore, Mark wrote AFTER the cross, and after Pentecost of Acts 2, and AFTER the
scattering of Acts 8.

4) But, the gospel that began during the time of John the Baptist, was to also include what Jesus
had been preaching and the story of the woman who washed His feet.

Mark 13:10
10 And the gospel must first be preached to all the nations. NKJV

Mark 14:9
9 Assuredly, I say to you, wherever this gospel is preached in the whole world, what this woman
has done will also be told as a memorial to her." NKJV

5) Therefore, Marks gospel includes THE BEGINNING of Jesus' ministry, the story of the woman
before the cross, all that Jesus taught before the cross, and how that gospel was to be preached to
ALL NATIONS in the WHOLE WORLD, and how that it WAS preached everywhere
(Mk.16:20).

6) Therefore, what Mark wrote was what the apostles preached AFTER the cross.

7) But, the gospel of Jesus Christ does not teach us to continue the observances of the shadows of the law of Moses.
(Col.2:14f).

8) But the "righteousness of God" is revealed in the gospel of Christ. Jesus was righteous. Jesus
wants us to be righteous.

9) The righteousness of the law is to be fulfilled in us (Rom.8:3,4). Therefore, it was all right that
the righteousness of the law be demonstrated in Jesus, and that the righteousness of the law be
extended to those in His kingdom.

10) Righteousness is a quality of life demanded by God in any and every law that comes from
Him. Therefore, the righteousness of the law would be expected of those in His kingdom (the one
from heaven).

11) The shadows of the law would be fulfilled in Jesus and would not be demanded of those in His
kingdom, such as Sabbaths, New Moons, animal sacrifices, circumcision, etc. Col.2:14f. But, the
righteousness of the law SHOULD be fulfilled in us. Rom.8:3,4

Therefore, those who keep the righteous principles that Jesus taught, such as love, poorness of
spirit, meekness, mercifulness, purity of heart, being lights to others, etc. will be blessed. They
will have the kingdom of heaven, will obtain mercy, be filled etc.(Matt.5:3ff).

Since this is the case, then my proposition has been proven to be true.

Interested readers, there are many other things to say, but you cannot bear them now. You can be
studying other aspects of this issue by joining my yahoo group at the following site:
understandingMMLJCorrectly-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Now, let us see if Dan can successfully deny this proposition.

Terry W. Benton