Strom/Mowery Debate on Premillenialism

 
 
 Proposition: 
 The view of PREMILLENNIALISM, as viewed by the SEVENTH DAY 
 ADVENTIST, is unscriptural.
 
 Affirm:  Dub Mowery
 Deny:  Bob Strom
 
 Bob, by your persistence in looking at the figurative language of 
 the last four chapters of Revelation as being literal, you are 
 forced to either pervert or ignore other passages of scripture 
 that actually speak in literal terms.  Revelation 19:11-21 and 
 Revelation 20:10-15 are both referring to the Great Day of 
 Judgment.  The figurative language of Revelation 19:11-21 is 
 simply revealing that false religion (referred to as the false 
 prophet) and ungodly forces (referred to as the beast) along with 
 those who lived worldly lives will be completely overcome by the 
 Lord and His sword.  His sword is not a literal sword (Rev. 9:21; 
 1:16).  Since this is symbolic language, it will be helpful for 
 us to look elsewhere in the scripture to obtain light on this 
 matter.  At Ephesians 6:17, we learn that, "...the sword of the 
 Spirit, which is the word of  God:"  And at Hebrews 4:12, the 
 inspired Word of God is compared to a sword.  That passage 
 declares:  "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and 
 sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing 
 asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow; and is 
 a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."  The power 
 of the Lord's Word will be exercised on the Great Day of Judgment 
 in that it will determine the eternal destiny of the entire human 
 race.  Our Lord informs us, that, "He that rejecteth me, and 
 receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him:  the word that 
 I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day"  (John 
 12:48).  For you to insist that Revelation 19:11-21 be recognized 
 as what will literally take place when our Lord returns would 
 have Him actually riding a white horse and physically killing all 
 the unrighteous with a literal sword that extends out of His 
 mouth.  The truth taught in that context is that false religion 
 and ungodly forces will be eternally condemned.  There will not 
 be any chance or hope of them escaping the eternal consequence of 
 their sins.  It is figuratively compared to a besieged city that 
 is leveled and all inhabitants therein destroyed.  By your 
 insistence on interpreting figurative language as if it were 
 literal, causes that approach to the inspired Word of God to 
 contradict plain passages of scripture elsewhere.  You then 
 attempt to change the meaning of those scriptures from that which 
 is plainly taught to harmonize with your unfounded theory.  John 
 5:28-29 is a prime example of those passages in which you are 
 attempting to change what is actually taught by them.  Your 
 futile effort to pervert that passage by claiming that the hour 
 of the resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous 
 does not refer to a specific hour of the day.  In your effort to 
 uphold the concept of two literal physical resurrections, you had 
 to claim that the hour of John 5:28-29 did not mean a specific 
 hour of a day.  Bob, you then gave at least 3 or 4 verses from 
 the book of John where the word "hour" had reference to a long 
 period of time.  You then made the assumption that proved the 
 hour of John 5:28-29 also meant a long period of time, a thousand 
 years.  I demonstrated in my second affirmative that evolutionist 
 could use the same strategy in their attempt to prove that the 
 six days of creation were long geological periods of time.  
 However, your effort did not prove that the word "hour" as used 
 by the Apostle John always meant a long period of time.  Here are 
 some of the scripture references in the gospel of John in which 
 an hour definitely meant a specific hour of the day.  They are as 
 follows:  (John 1:39; 4:6, 52; 19:14).  There are probably other 
 passages in the gospel of John in which the word hour specified a 
 particular hour of the day.  Therefore, your effort to prove that 
 the hour of John 5:28-29 does not mean a certain hour of day was 
 not accomplished.  Acts 24:15 definitely reveals that there will 
 be only one resurrection of the physically dead.  That passage 
 states, "And have hope toward God, which they themselves also 
 allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of 
 the just and unjust."  That passage speaks of a singular 
 resurrection of the just and unjust.  It speaks of "a 
 resurrection", not "first resurrection and second resurrection", 
 or "resurrections".  These two passages prove your theory of two 
 separate resurrections of the dead to be false.
 
 Your response to the description of the Great Day of Judgment 
 recorded at Matthew 25:31-46 is a dodge to the plain description 
 therein.  
 
 You state:  
 First notice--NO mention of the resurrection of the wicked.
 
 Dub
 Bob, I might add that there is not any mention of the 
 resurrection of the righteous either.  The immediate subject was 
 not the resurrection of the dead, but rather the eternal judgment 
 of both the righteous and unrighteous.  The scripture elsewhere 
 reveals that the resurrection of both the righteous and 
 unrighteous will take place before the general judgment.  Also, 
 the resurrection of all the physically dead will be for the 
 purpose of being eternally judged  (John 5:28-29).  The 
 Apostle Paul wrote by inspiration,  "For we must all appear 
 before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive 
 the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, 
 whether it be good or bad" (II Cor. 5:10).  
 
 Bob, you further state, 
 Also notice that the righteous and wicked appear to be already 
 living together on earth.  Nations are mixed and the saints have 
 not inherited the kingdom yet.
 
 Dub here:  
 Matthew 25:31-46 is not a description of the saints living among 
 the unrighteous, but rather the Day of Judgment in which the 
 entire human race is judged according to how they lived.  When 
 preparation was being made for this debate, my original 
 proposition included the declaration that the kingdom of Christ 
 was established on the first Pentecost after the resurrection of 
 Christ.  At that time, you claimed that you agreed with that.  
 The moderators can back me up on that fact! And yet, you now 
 claim that the saints have not inherited the kingdom yet.  You 
 seem to be mixed up on this point.  At the end of time our Lord 
 shall return to receive His kingdom (the redeemed) and deliver it 
 to the Heavenly Father (I Cor. 15:23-28).
 
 Since the book of Revelation is a book written primarily in 
 symbolic language (Rev. 1:1), we need to consider the location of 
 the Apostle John when he received supernaturally the series of 
 visions that make up that book.  In contrast to this, the Apostle 
 Paul speaks of a man caught up into the third heaven into 
 paradise, "...and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful 
 for a man to utter"  (II Cor. 12:1-4).  It is important for us to 
 remember where the Apostle John was located when he received the 
 series of visions.  John was on the isle of Patmos (Rev. 1:9).  
 From that viewpoint he received the different visions in which he 
 records as the book of Revelation.  This is obviously why the 
 vision of the eternal home of the redeemed was brought down for 
 John to view.  He wrote:  "And I saw a new heaven and a new 
 earth:  for the first heaven and the first earth were passed 
 away; and there was no more sea.  And I John saw the holy city 
 new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a 
 bride adorned for her husband"  (Rev. 21:1).  Now keep in mind 
 what John saw was visions.  Other passages of scripture use 
 similar terminology concerning the eternal abode of the righteous 
 (They are:  Isa. 65:17; Isa. 66:22; and II Pet. 3:13).  Many 
 erroneously interpret all four of those passages to teach that 
 the redeemed will live eternally on a physical earth with the 
 Lord after this present life is over.  Such an interpretation of 
 those passages contradict other passages of scripture.  In 
 referring to the literal physical world, Jesus declared, "Heaven 
 and earth shall pass away,..." (Matt. 24:35).  The Apostle Peter 
 wrote about the second coming of Christ and the destruction of 
 the physical universe with these words:   "But the day of the 
 Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens 
 shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt 
 with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein 
 shall be burned up.  Seeing then that all these things shall be 
 dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy 
 conversation and godliness.  Looking for and hasting unto the 
 coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall 
 be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?  
 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens 
 and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness" (II Pet. 3:10-
 13).  Thus, the physical universe will pass away when Jesus 
 Christ returns at the end of time.  This will not provide a 
 period of time for the Son of God to take the righteous to heaven 
 for 1,000 years and then return to inhabit a renovated earth 
 forever with the righteous.  Jesus is presently preparing an 
 eternal home for the righteous in the heaven of heavens (John 
 14:1-3; II Cor. 5:1).  As long as we live in a physical body we 
 will not enjoy our eternal home in heaven (II Cor. 5:1-9; I Cor. 
 15:50-57).  Therefore, the new heaven and earth will be the 
 eternal home of the soul in which our Lord is now preparing for 
 us.  With this in mind, we should heed these words of our Lord:  
 "Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and 
 rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:  
 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth 
 nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor 
 steal:  For where your treasure is, there will your heart be 
 also" (Matt. 6:19-21).  Rather than placing our affections on a 
 physical earth, the Apostle Paul urges us with the following 
 words, "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which 
 are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.  Set 
 your affection on things above, not on things on the earth"  
 (Col. 3:1-2).  
 
 Bob, I have refrained from using catty remarks toward you during 
 our written debate.  I am more interested in truth and both your 
 soul and mine.  It is my prayer that both of us will take time 
 later to carefully go back over all of the material that you and 
 I have presented in light of the inspired Word of God. 
 
 Sincerely, 
 Dub Mowery