STROM/PUCKETT DEBATE ON BAPTISM
Jim Puckett's First Affirmative
Proposition:
Resolved, that the keeping of the weekly Sabbath is not
scripturally binding on Christians today.
Affirm: James Puckett
Deny: Bob Strom
First Affirmative:
Definition of terms:
1. keeping: by "keeping," I mean the observance in the same
manner as was commanded the children of Israel by God.
2. weekly Sabbath: by "weekly sabbath," or only "sabbath", I mean
the holy day of rest on the seventh day of each week as given in
the ten commandments in Exod. 20:8. Any reference to other
sabbaths will be identified when used.
3. scripturally: by "scripturally," I mean in accordance with the
will of God expressed in the Bible and specifically the teachings
of Christ and His apostles in the New Testament.
4. binding: by "binding," I mean that Christians are amenable to,
required by God's laws to observe.
5. Christians: by "Christians," I mean those whom the Lord adds
to His church as in: (Acts 2:47 KJV) "Praising God, and having
favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church
daily such as should be saved."
6. today: by "today," I mean the Christian dispensation, in which
we live, in other words all time between the first Pentecost
after the resurrection of Jesus Christ and the end of the world.
I. Background of the sabbath.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Gen.
1:1) During the first six days He created light and the
firmament, separated the waters from dry land, created all of the
vegetation, the sun, moon, and stars, birds, land animals, fish,
and finally created man. God saw that everything he had made was
very good.
Then we are told:
(Gen 2:1-3 KJV) "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished,
and all the host of them.
{2} And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had
made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he
had made.
{3} And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because
that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and
made."
The root of the Hebrew word for "rested" above is "shabath"
(H7673), which is a primitive root meaning "to repose, i.e.
desist from exertion."
Thus God made the seventh day holy. He set it apart from the
other six days. What did this mean for man? We are told nothing
to relate this to man at this time.
***Therefore, the keeping of the weekly Sabbath is not
scripturally binding on Christians today because in the Bible
record God did not relate the seventh day to man as a memorial or
a day to be kept at the creation, when He sanctified and blessed
it.***
No day was set up for man to rest until Exodus 12 when Moses was
telling the children of Israel how to prepare for the killing of
the firstborn and their leaving Egypt. Even this seventh day was
not given as the seventh day of the week, but as the seventh day
of eating unleavend bread. This was the real passover, which
later would be incorporated into a yearly feast to memorialize
their deliverance from Egypt.
(Exo 12:14-17 KJV) "And this day shall be unto you for a
memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout
your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for
ever.
{15} Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day
ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth
leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that
soul shall be cut off from Israel.
{16} And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and
in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no
manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man
must eat, that only may be done of you.
{17} And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in
this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of
Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by
an ordinance for ever."
***Therefore, the keeping of the weekly Sabbath is not
scripturally binding on Christians today because the first time
in the Bible record that anyone was commanded to rest on the
seventh day was in Exodus 12 when the children of Israel were
told to rest on it as they prepared for their flight from
Egypt.***
II. Who was commanded to keep the sabbath?
The seventh day was not referred to as the sabbath until after
they had left Egypt and God started giving them manna for bread,
every morning. They were to gather twice as much on the sixth
day, because there would be none on the seventh day. Moses told
them:
(Exo 16:23-26 KJV) "And he said unto them, This is that which
the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath
unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe
that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you
to be kept until the morning.
{24} And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it
did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
{25} And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath
unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
{26} Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which
is the sabbath, in it there shall be none."
This is the first occurrence in the Bible of the word "shabbath"
(H7676 shabbath, shab-bawth'; intens. from H7673; intermission,
i.e. (spec.) the Sabbath:-- (+ every) sabbath.)
This is the first time anyone was commanded to observe the
seventh day of the week as "the sabbath," or "a sabbath unto the
LORD." This is an important point to remember!
We have no command for anyone to keep the sabbath until it was
given to the children of Israel at Mt. Sinai. This fact in itself
does not prove it wasn't given to their ancestors, but Moses
tells us that it wasn't given to them.
(Deu 5:1-3 KJV) "And Moses called all Israel, and said unto
them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in
your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do
them.
{2} The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
{3} The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with
us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day."
Here, Moses reminds Israel that God made this covenant with them
in Horeb, but He did not make it with their fathers. Therefore,
God did not give the law of Moses to the ancestors of the
children of Israel. This means He did not give them the ten
commandments to keep, nor the sabbath. So, this is proof that the
sabbath was not binding before Sinai.
***Therefore, the keeping of the weekly Sabbath is not
scripturally binding on Christians today because the first time
in the Bible record that anyone was commanded to observe the
seventh day of the week as the sabbath is in Exod. 16:23-26.***
Next, let's look at the giving of the Law of Moses, where the
command to keep the sabbath is given in the ten commandments.
(Exo 20:1-2 KJV) "And God spake all these words, saying,
{2} I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the
land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."
Notice that the ten commandments are prefaced with the reminder
that "the LORD thy God," who delivered them out of bondage in
Egypt was giving these commandments. Further, notice that they
are addressed to the children of Israel and no other group of
people. They were for the people who had been delivered from
Egyptian bondage. There were no Gentiles in this group of people.
So, these commandments were not given to us, since most of us are
Gentiles.
Now, the giving of the sabbath:
(Exo 20:8-11 KJV) "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
{9} Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
{10} But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in
it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy
daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle,
nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
{11} For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and
all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the
LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."
He told the Hebrews that God blessed the seventh day and hallowed
(sanctified) it because He had rested on the seventh day after He
had created the heaven and earth and sea, and all they contain.
This was the same reason He gave it to them as the sabbath. Then,
when giving instructions to Moses about building the tabernacle,
God said the following:
(Exo 31:13-17 KJV) "Speak thou also unto the children of Israel,
saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign
between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know
that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
{14} Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto
you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for
whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from
among his people.
{15} Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath
of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the
sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
{16} Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to
observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual
covenant.
{17} It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever:
for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the
seventh day he rested, and was refreshed."
God told the children of Israel here that He gave them his
sabbaths as a sign between God and Israel that they might know He
is the LORD that "doth sanctify" them. This is confirmed in
Ezekiel:
(Ezek 20:12 KJV) "Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a
sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD
that sanctify them."
(Ezek 20:20 KJV) "And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a
sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your
God."
The above scriptures prove convincingly, that the Notice that God
told Moses that the sabbath "is a sign between me and the
children of Israel throughout their generations." It was not
given to any people other than the children of Israel, but was
given to the children of Israel for a specific purpose and not as
a general command to all mankind! Notice also the penalty for
anyone who did not keep it was death. Therefore, those who keep
it today as binding will have to put to death anyone of their
number who fails to keep it. Additionally, they could not start a
fire on the sabbath.
(Exo 35:2-3 KJV) "Six days shall work be done, but on the
seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest
to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
{3} Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the
sabbath day."
It would be interesting to see how those who keep the sabbath
today avoid lighting a fire on the sabbath as many furnaces in
the colder climates must start their fire each time the
thermostat calls for more heat. I suppose they could just suffer
the cold for the day. Neither would they be able to use
gas kitchen ranges on the sabbath. Anyone who smokes would not be
able to light up on the sabbath. That might be a plus as an
encouragement to stop smoking.
There are additional scriptures that show the sabbath was given
to Israel and no other nation.
(Lev 19:2-3 KJV) "Speak unto all the congregation of the
children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I
the LORD your God am holy.
{3} Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep
my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God."
(Lev 23:3 KJV) "Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day
is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work
therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings."
(Deu 5:12-15 KJV) "Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the
LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
{13} Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
{14} But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in
it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy
daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox,
nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is
within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may
rest as well as thou.
{15} And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt,
and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a
mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy
God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day."
Notice, in particular, verse 15: "therefore the LORD thy God
commanded thee to keep the sabbath day." He gives as the reason
for giving them the sabbath that He brought them out of Egyptian
bondage. This is in addition to what He said in Exod. 20:11 that
He made the heaven and earth in six days and rested on the
seventh.
(Neh 9:14 KJV) "And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and
commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of
Moses thy servant:"
***Therefore, the keeping of the weekly Sabbath is not
scripturally binding on Christians today because no people other
than the children of Israel were ever commanded to keep it.***
III. What did Jesus do with regard to the Law of Moses?
A. What did He come to do with regard to the Law of Moses?
(Mat 5:17,18 KJV) "Think not that I am come to destroy the law,
or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. {18}
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or
one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be
fulfilled.
Here Jesus tells us he didn't come to destroy the law, or the
prophets. He came to fulfil them, and the law will not be
diminished until all is fulfilled. What did he mean that he came
to fulfill the law? The Greek word for "fulfil" here is "pleroo"
(G4137).
4137. pleroo, play-ro'-o; from G4134; to make replete, i.e.
(lit.) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (fig.) to furnish
(or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office),
finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a
prediction), etc.:--accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end,
expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach,
perfect, supply.
Strong's definition shows us that it means to make replete, to
cram, finish, perfect, or, as we might say: to fill full. It does
not mean to observe or keep. So, Jesus came to fill the law full,
to complete it, to perfect it. Did you notice that one meaning is
"expire"? That is what happened when it was filled full.
Now, if you look at verse 18, you'll see that Jesus said nothing
would be removed from the law until all would be fulfilled. The
Greek word here is different than the one used for "fulfil." The
word used here is "ginomai" (G1096).
1096. ginomai, ghin'-om-ahee; a prol. and mid. form of a prim.
verb; to cause to be ("gen"-erate), i.e. (reflex.) to become
(come into being), used with great latitude (lit. fig., intens.,
etc.):--arise be assembled, be (come, -fall, -have self), be
brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, be
done, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be
fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be
married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be
published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be
taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.
Basically, we can say, using Strong's definition, that the law
will not be diminished until it is finished and has done what it
was intended to do and was at a natural ending point.
Therefore, Jesus came to bring the law to its natural completion
or ending point, the point at which it fulfilled its purpose.
B. What did He do with regard to the Law of Moses?
During His ministry, Jesus kept the Law of Moses perfectly.
Although the Jews accused him of violating the law, he did not.
He may have violated their traditions, but not the law. One
example is an incident where they accused him of violating the
sabbath.
(Mark 2:23-28 KJV) "And it came to pass, that he went through
the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as
they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
{24} And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the
sabbath day that which is not lawful?
{25} And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did,
when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with
him?
{26} How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar
the high priest, and did eat the showbread, which is not lawful
to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with
him?
{27} And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not
man for the sabbath:
{28} Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath."
In verse 27, where He said the sabbath was made for man, not man
for the sabbath, He was telling the Pharisees, that the sabbath
was intended to be a benefit for man, not a controlling
influence. Man was not a slave to the sabbath.
C. What was the purpose of the Law of Moses?
(Gal 3:16 KJV) "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises
made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And
to thy seed, which is Christ."
(Gal 3:19-26 KJV) "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added
because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the
promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a
mediator.
{20} Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
{21} Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for
if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily
righteousness should have been by the law.
{22} But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the
promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that
believe.
{23} But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up
unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
{24} Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto
Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
{25} But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a
schoolmaster.
{26} For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ
Jesus."
Paul tells us that the law was added because of transgressions,
until the seed, Christ, should come, and it was "our schoolmaster
to bring us unto Christ.". In Roman times a schoolmaster, or
tutor, was usually a slave who was assigned to the owners child.
He would help the child learn his lessons and help him get ready,
and then take him to school, where the teacher would then conduct
the classes. The law served that purpose for man. It prepared
man for the master teacher, Jesus Christ. It prepared him for the
law of Christ whereby we are saved by grace through faith. When
the teacher was present, there was no more need of the
schoolmaster, so it expired. Once the law of Moses, the
schoolmaster, had brought us to Christ, it had no more function
to perform and so was taken out of the way. We are under faith
now, not the works of the law.
(Eph 2:8-10 KJV) "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and
that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
{9} Not of works, lest any man should boast.
{10} For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto
good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in
them."
D. Did He accomplish this mission?
When Jesus was on the cross, he made several statements for
several reasons. The last statement He made was "It is
finished."
(John 19:30 KJV) "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar,
he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the
ghost."
Most people do not attach much significance to this statement,
other than that it meant He was ready to quit living. However, it
has a very important significance in relation to His mission. He
came to fulfill the law, to complete it, to finish it. He tells
us that He did what He came to do. His mission was finished,
completed. He had fulfilled the law, he had completed it. He had
also fulfilled all of the Messianic prophecies regarding
everything about the Messiah, except His resurrection from the
dead. But we are concerned with his finishing the Law of Moses.
There are a number of scriptures that tell us Jesus did just
that.
(Col 2:14 KJV) "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that
was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the
way, nailing it to his cross;"
For those that don't think the law of Moses is the "handwriting
of ordinances" Paul is talking about, let's see what Joseph Henry
Thayer says about it in his lexicon on page 668 under
"cheirographon": "metaph. applied in Col. ii.14 to the Mosaic
law, which shews men to be chargeable with offenses for which
they must pay the penalty." So, Thayer agrees that Paul is
talking about the law of Moses here being taken out of the way,
nailed to the cross.
The book of Hebrews is a contrasting of the law of Moses with the
law of Christ that shows how the old law was a shadow of the good
things to come in the law of Christ. It tells about Jesus being a
priest after the order of Melchisedek, and then says:
(Heb 7:12 KJV) "For the priesthood being changed, there is made
of necessity a change also of the law."
The law was to be changed. It was weak, it made nothing perfect.
The old law could not promise the forgiveness of sins, but the
new law could and did.
(Heb 7:18-19 KJV) "For there is verily a disannulling of the
commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness
thereof.
{19} For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a
better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God."
The commandment (ten commandments, law of Moses) was/were weak
and unprofitable, so a better hope was brought in, a better
covenant based on better promises.
(Heb 8:6-9 KJV) "But now hath he obtained a more excellent
ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better
covenant, which was established upon better promises.
{7} For if that first covenant had been faultless, then
should no place have been sought for the second.
{8} For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come,
saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of
Israel and with the house of Judah:
{9} Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the
land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I
regarded them not, saith the Lord."
(Heb 9:14-20 KJV) "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who
through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God,
purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
{15} And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament,
that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions
that were under the first testament, they which are called
might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
{16} For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be
the death of the testator.
{17} For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it
is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
{18} Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without
blood.
{19} For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people
according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats,
with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the
book, and all the people,
{20} Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath
enjoined unto you."
It is obvious here that the first testament, the law of Moses was
replaced by the "new testament."
(Heb 10:1-10 KJV) "For the law having a shadow of good things to
come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those
sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the
comers thereunto perfect.
{2} For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because
that the worshippers once purged should have had no more
conscience of sins.
{3} But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of
sins every year.
{4} For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats
should take away sins.
{5} Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice
and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
{6} In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no
pleasure.
{7} Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is
written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
{8} Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt
offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst
pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
{9} Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh
away the first, that he may establish the second.
{10} By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of
the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
The law of Moses had only a shadow of good things to come and not
the very image of them and thus could not remove sin or make
those under it perfect. Therefore, Jesus Christ took away the
first in order to establish the second, His law.
Paul contrasts the law of Moses with the law of Christ in Rom. 8
and refers to the law of Moses as the law of sin and death and
the law of Christ as the law of the Spirit of life. He confirms
this to the Corinthians. The person walking by the law of Moses
is walking after the flesh, and the person walking by the law of
Christ is walking after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:1-5 KJV) "There is therefore now no condemnation to them
which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but
after the Spirit.
{2} For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made
me free from the law of sin and death.
{3} For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through
the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful
flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: {4} That the
righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not
after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
{5} For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the
flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the
Spirit."
We already saw the weakness of the law of Moses, since it was
only a shadow, and not the real thing. It was the ministration of
death, written and engraven in stones.
(2 Cor 3:7-11 KJV) "But if the ministration of death, written
and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of
Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the
glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
{8} How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather
glorious?
{9} For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more
doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. {10} For
even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect,
by reason of the glory that excelleth.
{11} For if that which is done away was glorious, much more
that which remaineth is glorious."
The law of Moses had glory, but the law of Christ, the
ministration of the spirit is much more glorious. It has the
"glory that excelleth."
Paul tells the Galatians, that if they attempt to be justified by
the law of Moses they will be lost.
(Gal 5:4 KJV) "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever
of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."
***Therefore, the keeping of the weekly Sabbath is not
scripturally binding on Christians today because Jesus fulfilled
the law of Moses and took it out of the way so that men living
today are no longer amenable to it.***
E. To which law are we amenable today?
The previous discussion shows us that the law of Moses was taken
out of the way, so we are not amenable to it today. Therefore,
since Jesus gave us His law and died for us, then it is now in
force and we are amenable to the law of Christ. As we read in
Hebrews 9:17 "For a testament is of force after men are dead:
otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth."
Today, we are amenable to the law of Christ, the gospel of
Christ, which began to be preached on Pentecost by Peter and the
apostles. The following scriptures show that we are amenable to
the gospel.
(Rom 10:16 KJV) "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For
Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?"
(2 Th 1:8 KJV) "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that
know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus
Christ:"
(1 Pet 4:17 KJV) "For the time is come that judgment must begin
at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the
end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"
***Therefore, the keeping of the weekly Sabbath is not
scripturally binding on Christians today because people living
today are amenable to the gospel of Christ, not the law of
Moses.***
Thus, the Affirmative has given four valid arguments that prove
its case that the keeping of the weekly Sabbath is not
scripturally binding on Christians today.
In Christ, Jim P.