STROM/PUCKETT DEBATE ON SABBATH
Bob Strom's Third Affirmative
Proposition:
Resolved, that the keeping of the weekly Sabbath is scripturally binding on
Christians today.
Affirm: Bob Strom
Deny: James Puckett
Outline of this response.
A. Definition of Terms.
B. Affirmative #3 - points.
C. Summary of Affirmative #2
D. Summary points regarding Jim’s first Rebuttal
E. Response to Jim’s second Rebuttal
A. Definition of terms -
1. Christ is as much "God" as God the Father. So what is attributed to God is in
fact not anti-Christ. Rather it IS Christ.
2. The "Law of Moses" in fact the "Law of God" since Moses did not manufacture
one word of scripture. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God".
3. The Gospel is the "Good news" of Salvation.
B. Affirmative 3 - additional points
My response to Jim's second Rebuttal was so detailed and involved I am merely
summarizing some of the highlights in this Affirmative. see the following posts
on the rebuttal responses in this affirmative for details.
A big thanks to Jim for providing many areas of Bible investigation on this
subject. The text of this debate will not be for the faint of heart - but for the
serious Bible student.
1. It is simply a matter of record to observe that no Sabbath service is detailed in
the book of Genesis. This is also true of Joshua through 1Kings.
Those who would argue from the silence of these books - that Sabbath did not
exist then - are fighting a losing battle. Clearly the overriding fact is that God had
already explicitly established the day as a Holy Day(and blessed) for mankind.
Genesis is a book of "origins" and so it does not contain a single one of the 10
commandments - but that does not mean sin and corruption did not exist "Where
there is no law there is no sin" holds true because in fact God's "Laws and statutes
and commandments" Gen 26:5 WERE known by the characters in Genesis though
not detailed in content until Exodus.
2. Christ removes all doubt - by stating that when the 7th day Sabbath was made
holy and sanctified - blessed - it was made FOR MANKIND not simply the
Hebrews. Obviously the Genesis 2 context of the Holy Day given to MANKIND
fits perfectly the claims of Christ in Mark 2:27. "The Sabbath was MADE for
mankind".
Christ affirms Sabbath to His Followers in the NT.
Christ says in the NT "Sabbath was MADE FOR MAN" when speaking to His
followers. Christ affirms that the "scripture can not be broken" John 10:35 and
states "IF you Love Me KEEP My commandments" BEFORE the Cross while
NOTHING is YET nailed to the Cross.
Since Christ IS God - there is no good way to bifurcate between Christ and God.
Christ IS God. His Commandments PRE-Cross while under the PRE-Cross
System are the same as those Post Cross. They are those He gave His people at
Sinai. They include the Creation Sabbath He "MADE for MANKIND" at
Creation Gen 2:1-4, Mark 2:28.
3. Christ perfectly fulfilled the Royal law of Love "Love your Neighbor as
yourself " Lev 19:18 and "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5.
Simply fulfilling the requirement did not void/abolish that law so that we no
longer need to worry about loving our Neighbor. This also holds true for the 10
Commandments. SOME of the LAWS in the OT are "prescriptive" and some are
"predictive". Those laws that define our behavior toward God and Man (Sabbath,
no Idolatry, no murder etc) are "prescriptive" they do not pass just because
someone complies with them. Just like the speed limit. Fulfilling the requirement
does not void it.
4. The ONE Gospel for ALL time is in PERFECT harmony with these
prescriptive laws in BOTH OT and NT. OT saints that we all agree were keeping
this law of Love (and even Sabbath) were operating under the ONE Gospel (Gal
1:6-7)
Gal 3:8 tells us that the Gospel was preached in the "OT Gal 3:17 tells us that the
Gospel promise was not voided by the laws of God at Sinai. Heb 4:1-2 states that
the good news of the Gospel was preached TO US - JUST as it was to them
ALSO. Rom 11:17-22 tells us that we are grafted IN to the place where the Jews
FELL and that God wants to graft them BACK to that place AGAIN. Heb 11:5
reminds us that some OT saints were actually taken to heaven. (and I listed a
bunch of texts showing actual forgiveness for pre-Cross saints - as if going to
heaven does not prove it).
In short Paul's Statement was illustrated "Do we then make VOID the LAW of
God through Faith - NO we ESTABLISH THE LAW" Rom 3:31.
5.What then is nailed to the Cross in Col 2? In the rebuttal answer I show that the
"certificate of DEBT consisting of decrees against us" Col 2:14 NASB - is the
DEBT that we OWE due to SIN "the wages of SIN is DEATH" Rom 6:23.
So again - ONE problem (the SIN problem) and ONE solution (The Gospel) - in
ALL ages.
As was pointed out in Jim's Gal 3 post God has placed "all under SIN" –
demonstrating the need of ALL for a Savior. True in both OT and NT. Reaping
the blessing of Sabbath and Marriage handed down from Eden - does no damage
to the Gospel.
6. In the language of Exodus 20's fourth commandment God proves that the
details of Gen 2:1-4 ALONE are sufficient to establish the seventh day as 'The
Sabbath of the Lord".
God "(Christ)" states God rested on that day and that Gen 2 fact ALONE is the
basis for our resting on that day.
God states that once the day was made HOLY the only way to KEEP it Holy was
to follow the Gen 2 model of resting.
God states that this is something to "remember" to do as the facts/details of Gen 2
(that God highlights) are remembered.
C. Summary of Affirmative 2
1. One Gospel for mankind (God's - solution - good news of Salvation) for all
ages.
2. God's holy 7th day given to mankind at Creation - is not opposed to God's
Gospel.
3. OT (Sabbath honoring) Saints of Heb 11 - are ALL saved by the ONE plan of
salvation (Gospel)
4. God not only gave His Creation Sabbath to mankind at creation - He also
INCLUDED it in the 10 commandments - commanding us not to forget what was
made at Creation - the Holy seventh.
5. God's moral law (the 10 commandments) are a unique - identifiable - distinct
unit of Law that defines sin for mankind - even in the NT.
6. James - names this "the Law of Liberty" and declares that NT saints are judged
by it.
D. Summary of Responses made to Jim's first Rebuttal
1. The 4th commandment tells us that when the Sabbath was made Holy and
given to mankind at creation- it could only be 'kept holy' by resting on that day
following God's example at creation.
2. All the "reasons" for observing the commandment are given at Sinai as those
that have already existed since creation. Nothing new in the commandment.
3. While we have no example of any of the 10 commandments being quoted or
listed in Genesis - yet we know that they were known - Cain knew that it was sin
go kill Abel (as God informs him that sin is crouching at his door but does not
need to detail it further). But we DO have the HOLY DAY explicitly made and
stated EVEN in Genesis.
4. Moses is not the source of any law - rather all scripture is given by inspiration
of God and is profitable for rebuke, correction, doctrine --- etc.
5. Since Christ IS God - it was Christ's Holy Day given to mankind at creation, it
was Christ's 4th commandment given to the saints of the OT at Sinai, it was
Christ's commandments still honored before the cross in the Gospels (if you love
Me KEEP My commandments) - it was Christ's commandment observed by His
OWN disciples when they "rested according to the commandment" at His
crucifixion it is Christ’s commandment that is written on the heart in the New
Covenant. And it is Christ's Sabbath that will be kept by ALL the saints in the
New Earth Is 66:23.
6. Instead of a New Testament principle of abolishing Christ's Law given to
mankind - we find the NT principle of "establishing the Law" Rom 3:31.
7 Though there is no direct quote of the 3rd commandment of Christ in the NT
we know it remained a sin to take God's name in vain.
8. The writer of Hebrews tells us in chapter four - "the REMAINS therefore a
SABBATH rest for the people of God" - indeed "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall
ALL MANKIND come to bow down before Me" Is 66:23.
9. The ONLY day of the week that is mentioned with CONSECUTIVE Bible
teaching services - week after week - is Sabbath. Teaching/evangelism of
primarily Gentiles - but also Jews.
E. Response to Jim's second rebuttal.
Thanks to Jim's careful and exhaustive list of questions and challenges in his 2nd
Rebuttal - a thoughtful response required quite a bit of space to include the
volumes of scripture on the subject and it's meaning.
Bob
"1. One Gospel for all ages means the blessing of God's 7thday of Creation –
(Sabbath) - is not anti-Gospel.
Paul makes the case in Gal 1:6-7 showing us that there is in fact only one way of
salvation - only one Gospel."
Jim
The word "gospel" does not appear in the O.T. Therefore, I cannot say that the
Gospel of Christ applied to those living before the death of Jesus on the cross,
although the cleansing from sin provided by the blood of Christ did apply to the
sins committed by those who lived before. The Gospel of Christ was not preached
to them as it is now preached to those living after the cross.
Bob
Gal 3:8 "The Gospel was preached to Abraham"
Not only does the NT tell us that they did have the "good news" Gospel preached
to them - but it says it was preached to US JUST as it was to them.
1Cor 10:2-4 "ALL were Baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea and all
drank from the SAME Spiritual ROCK which followed them and that WAS
CHRIST"
Hebrews 4
1 Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of
you may seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed WE HAVE HAD THE
GOOD NEWS preached to us, JUST AS THEY ALSO; but the word they heard
did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.
So much are we alike - that they are our example both in doing right (Heb 11) and
in falling away from that ONE Gospel - (a warning to us).
Heb 3:8 DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED
ME, AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS,
9 WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED Me BY TESTING Me, AND SAW MY
WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS.
10 " THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION, AND SAID,
"THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART, AND THEY DID NOT
KNOW MY WAYS';
11 AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, "THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.'''
12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving
heart that FALLS AWAY from the LIVING GOD.
13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today,'' so
that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
They FELL AWAY from the LIVING God by disobedience - the notion that there
was no real salvation, no gospel, no forgiveness to begin with - is absent from the
text. Instead WE have the gospel (good news) preached to US JUST AS THEY
ALSO. One Savior, One Solution (Gospel) - ONE problem (SIN).
Jim
Those living before the cross were amenable to the law that God provided for
them.
Bob
And I assume we agree that when you say "God" you mean Christ - God the Son
as well.
Jim
We are amenable to the law of Christ as it is now in effect.
Bob
Certainly true in all ages - we are accountable to God's Law as it is in effect.
Jim
Those who were delivered from Egypt through those who died before the cross
were amenable to the Law of Moses.
Bob
Only to the extent to which Moses was inspired by God - it is only God's
authority (not Moses') that can author scripture, establish moral law for mankind –
and define sin.
Jim
There was no forgiveness of sins under the Law of Moses. Their sins were
remembered every year.
Bob
That is partially true. There was no forgiveness in ANIMAL BLOOD - but there
was REAL forgiveness in the OT for OT saints - because under the ONE Gospel
(Gal 1:6) forgiveness is through Christ's blood ALONE.
So when we see REAL forgiveness PRE-Cross it is ALWAYS via the ONE
method - the ONE Gospel - the Blood of Christ. Animal blood was merely
symbolic - it had no actual power to forgive sins.
Isaiah 6:7 "Your sin IS forgiven"
Num 14:19 where God had "forgiven Israel"
Matt 9:2 "Your sins ARE forgiven" Luke 7:48, 5:20-23
Ps 78:38 God forgave Israel
Ex 34:7 God declares Himself as the God that "forgives"
Daniel 9:19 Daniel claims the promise of forgiveness praying directly to God –
without a sacrifice.
Ps 32:5 David confesses that God really DID forgive.
Salvation Present and/PAST tense for the OT Saints..............
Ps 51:12 "Restore unto me the JOY of THY Salvation"
Ps 51:14 "God IS my Salvation" 68:19, 118:23, 35:3, 62:2, Isaiah 12:2, 45:21
Isaiah 51:5 My Righteousness is Near, My Salvation HAS gone forth
Is 25:9 "Be GLAD in HIS Salvation"
Is 45:17 "Israel HAS BEEN saved by the Lord with an EVERLASTING
Salvation"
OT saint examples EVEN of those being taken to heaven without dying.
1 Now FAITH is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not
seen.
2 For by it the men of old GAINED APPROVAL
3 By FAITH WE understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God,
so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible....
5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS
NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that
before his being taken up he was PLEASING TO GOD.
6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must
believe that He is and that He is a REWARDER OF THOSE who seek Him.
"and Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven" 2Kings 2:1
And of course Moses is with Elijah speaking to Christ in Matt 17.
Jim
Yes, there is only one gospel taught in the Bible, the gospel of Christ. Certainly
nothing that God did throughout the years was anti-gospel. The Sabbath was not
anti-gospel, because the seventh day Sabbath was not part of it.
Bob
I agree that IF we exclude the Creation of mankind, the coming New Earth etc
from the context/story of the Gospel solution - and instead we narrow the term to
JUST speak of forgiveness of sins - then Sabbath is in perfect harmony with that
Gospel - but not part of it.
(Gal 1:6 KJV) "6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called
you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another;
only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of
Christ.
Jim
Yes, there is only one gospel, there is only one name whereby we must be saved.
However, you cannot make the gospel retroactive, as those living before the cross
of Christ were not amenable to the gospel of Christ, but to God's law that was
active during their lifetimes.
Bob
We have just to observe the texts mentioned above - showing that OT saints were
being saved, forgiven, transformed into men of faith to the point that WE have the
good news preached to us JUST AS THEY ALSO - and you clearly have a
salvation "solution" in the OT - that is either ANOTHER Gospel - or it is the
same one.
In the case of God's Law NOT being Christ's - You are inserting a distinction
without a difference when you present God's Law as IF it is NOT Christ's. Christ
IS God - God the Father and God the Son have the SAME will the same law the
same scripture the same gospel the same solution for mankind.
Jim
Obviously, those who lived under the Law of Moses kept the Sabbath. I cannot
say that Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, or Joseph kept the Sabbath.
Bob
I think that just as we know that God's "laws, commandments and statutes"
existed in the time of Genesis (Gen 26:5) AND we know that the 7th day HOLY
DAY was EXPLICITLY provided at creation - even to the point of defining the
reason for a 7 day week - we can assume that God is being consistent here.
IF we could argue from silence then - The Holy Seventh Day of Creation
disappears after Genesis 2, then again in Joshua Judges, Ruth, 1Samuel , 2
Samuel, 1 Kings and does not "reappear" until some time in 2Kings.
But if we keep with the text we are assured that God's Gen 26:5 "My
commandments, My statutes and My laws.'' were known by characters in Genesis
though not detailed for us in this book of "origins".
Jim
We have no record that those who lived before the deliverance from Egypt- kept
the Sabbath. Otherwise, you would have quoted it in your arguments. You have
only assumed that they did.
Bob
No record of any of the commandments in Genesis - BUT a clear affirmation that
God's commandments DID EXIST just no clear statement of them.
Just as we know that "where there is no law there is no Sin" Romans 5, we also
know that pre-flood humanity was Sooo sinful that God destroyed it. With out a
single one of the 10 commandments listed explicitly (other than the Holy Seventh
Day Creation Sabbath) they were charged with Sin.
Jim
If you will provide Book, Chapter, and Verse to show that any of them kept the
Sabbath, then I will retract my statement that we have no record that they kept it.
The first account of a day in which the people could do no work, of which I am
aware, is when the children of Israel were preparing to leave Egypt in Exodus
12:16.
Bob
God states that the ONLY way to keep the day Holy - the Holy Day God says
started at Creation - is to rest (according to God). We have no record of saints
violating Sabbath before Exodus and we have no example of them taking God's
name in vain - neither do we have the commandment stated until Exodus 20. At
some point we have to conclude the obvious.
Bob:
"2. God's 10 commandments are a unique identifiable unit - that defines sin....
Jim
Obviously, since they were written by the finger of God on two tables of stone,
they are a unique identifiable unit. So what?
Bob
Good question - I am nailing that point down - because we will see references to
that UNIT - made in the NT. Once we understand the UNIT we can appreciate it's
continued authoritative usage in both the OT and NT.
Jim
You emphasize that God spoke the Ten Commandments directly to the people.
Did you also notice why He did not speak the rest to them directly?
Bob
Yes - and it further makes my point that they are a distinct unit that is held in
distinction to all other laws given by God.
Jim
The people were afraid and begged Moses to get it from God and then tell them so
they would not have to hear it directly from God.
Bob
(Exo 20:18-20 KJV) "And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings,
and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw
it, they removed, and stood afar off.
{19} And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not
God speak with us, lest we die.
{20} And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you,
and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not."
So, it was the people's fear that kept God from speaking the whole law to them,
not the status of the Ten Commandments.
When it says "And He added no more" and when we see that ONLY the 10
commandments are IN STONE, and ONLY the 10 commandments are placed IN
the ark - we see that it is not only the Hebrew's choice to be fearful - but God's
choice to make a distinction with the 10 commandments.
Jim
You mentioned "10 words" twice, but you gave no scripture to back it up. I could
not find "10 words" or "ten words" in the entire Bible.
Bob
I did not mean to sidetrack the conversation. I was merely referencing the fact that
Deut 10:4 uses the Hebrew word "dabar" (374 times translated as 'Words') for
Commandments when speaking of the 10 Commandments. I did not intend it to
be a focus.
Jim
(Deu 4:1-2 KJV) "Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the
judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and
possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
2} Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye
diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your
God which I command you."
Yes, these Ten Commandments defined sin, but the rest of the law that Moses
wrote down also defined sin. Had the High Priest not worn the linen clothing, or
the ephod, or the mitre as he was commanded, would he not have sinned? Of
course he would. Had they not put the daily showbread in its place daily, would
that not have been a sin? Of course it would. What about the commands against
homosexuality, or bestiality? Were they not as binding as the command to not
commit adultery? Of course they were.
Bob
When Paul speaks of that which defines sin (for NT saints) he quotes the 10-
commandment unit alone. Certainly it would be sin to perform the ceremonies
specified by God in a way that violated His word. But mankind is not lost or "in
sin" because we failed to be Levites, or failed to perform the service of the Levite.
That does not define Sin for mankind.
Bob
"Paul states in Romans 7 that this law defines sin.
Destroying God's Law - destroys the need for a Savior who came to save us by
paying the penalty His law demands for violation. Honoring God's Law means
honoring the Sabbath contained in that Law (which is why we will be keeping the
Sabbath in the New Earth Isaiah 66.)
James calls this unit - the "Law of Liberty" in James 2:10-12"
Jim
Of course the law defined sin. That is the purpose of a law; to give the boundaries
of acceptable behavior. However, when Paul talks about the Law of Moses, he did
not limit it to the Ten Commandments. If you believe he was, give us BCV (book,
chapter, and verse) to prove it. He does talk about more than one law in Romans
7.
Bob
He only speaks of one Law in Romans 7 as being from God and defining sin. The
other law that he speaks of is the internal sinful nature - the law that causes us to
rebel against God's Holy Ten Commandments. Since the 10 commandments are a
distinct UNIT - when Paul references them he is referencing the UNIT.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the
contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would
not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, " YOU SHALL NOT
COVET.''
8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting
of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.
9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin
became alive and I died;
He does the same in Rom 13:9 only there he adds what James calls "the Royal
Law" to the list. STILL showing them to be authoritative - and showing them to
be a quote of the 10 commandments. This is because Christ Himself (before the
Cross - before anything being done away) states that the Royal Law of Love
forms the foundation for all other Law. It is the support upon which God's Laws
(the Law of Christ) stands.
In that way he can say in Eph 6:1-2 that the 5 commandment is the FIRST
commandment with a promise. That is not the first promise given in the OT - but
it IS the first commandment WITH a promise IN the 10 commandment UNIT.
(James 2:10-12 KJV) "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in
one point, he is guilty of all.
{11} For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou
commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
{12} So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty."
Jim
I'm afraid you are mistaken about what James called the "law of liberty." He was
not referring to the Ten Commandments or the Law of Moses in its entirety.
Bob
He quotes the 10 commandments - that is clear. It is more than mere coincidence.
He quotes from the 10 commandment unit of Law. Kept inside the ark, spoken by
God "And He added no more". It is useless to try to re-invent the 10
commandments as if they are ANOTHER 10 commandments that say the same
thing.
As Paul stated in 2Cor 3 the LAW written on "tablets of stone" is written on
"tablets of the human heart" under the New Covenant of Jer 31 "I will write My
laws on their heart" also repeated in Heb 8 and 10.
Jim
He was talking about the law of Christ. He was contrasting it with the Law of
Moses.
Bob
In what language of the actual text of James 2 do we see James contrasting "the
Law of Moses" with "the law of Christ". It is not there. Rather - he quotes from
Exodus (for the 10 commandments) and from Leviticus and Deut (for the Royal
Law). The language of the text does not support your assertion.
Notice that he used two of the Ten Commandments as examples. He said that if
you break one command you are a transgressor of the law, the whole law. You
cannot break one point without being a lawbreaker. You missed the difference
between the law "of sin and death", which is the Law of Moses, and the law "of
liberty", "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus", which is the law of Christ.
(Rom 8:1-3 KJV) "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in
Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
{2} For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the
law of sin and death.
{3} For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God
sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in
the flesh:"
Romans 8 shows that Christ was DOING what His LAW could NOT do - Christ
was SHOWING perfect obedience to His OWN law was possible (tempted in all
points as we are YET without SIN - violation of His OWN law) - AND He was
providing SALVATION (for by the works of THE LAW shall NO FLESH be
saved). The text of Romans 8 says nothing about God's Law being replaced by a
better God's Law.
Jim
The Law of Moses was weak through the flesh.
Bob
Moses is not mentioned in Romans 8. "The LAW" is authoritative ONLY because
it is "God's"
Jim
That's part of the reason it was replaced by the new law, the law of Christ.
Bob
You are saying this - without providing a text that has those words in it.
#1.
Jim
You assume that when God sanctified (set apart, made holy) the seventh day
because He rested in it after creating the world, that man must have automatically
started keeping is as the Sabbath. However, you have given no evidence or proof
whatsoever to support this assumption
Bob
God gave the day AS a Holy Day At creation Gen 2:1-4 shows that.
Christ Himself affirms that the "Sabbath was MADE for Mankind"
God Himself states that the only way to Keep the Holy Day Holy - was to rest on
it (Ex 20) and tells us that the Holy Seventh day (MADE at creation) - IS the
same as Sabbath - it IS the Sabbath.
He chose to base the entire case for the Holy seventh day KEPT Holy by resting –
entirely on the Genesis 2 fact that God rested.
The assumption you are making is that our Creator God MADE the 7th day His
Holy Day (to be kept holy) at Creation - but failed to inform mankind (for whom
the day was MADE) until 2500 years later. Or perhaps you are arguing that He
informs man about the 7th day of the week - telling him it is God's Holy day - but
fails to tell mankind that His action was to REST on that day and that is how it is
kept Holy.
Your assumption is based on the silence of Genesis regarding further
details/examples/commands for keeping the Holy seventh-day AFTER Gen 2.
The same argument would void all the 10 commandments in Genesis AND would
void Sabbath from Joshua through 1Kings..
Obviously - we DO have the fact that God's "laws, commandments and statutes"
were known in Genesis. (Gen 26:5) - but we do not find the detail for that info
until Exodus. But it is even worse in the case of Sabbath because IT IS declared to
be a Holy Day IN Genesis - explicitly. Hard to miss.
(In fact in Gal 3:8 we are told that the Gospel itself was known to Abraham –
preached to him by God). Clearly Genesis is not an exhaustive book - rather it is a
book of "origins".
Instead of arguing that the Sabbath WAS not a Holy Day at creation but now IS –
THE TEXT of Exodus 20 says that the ONLY reason for keeping it Holy is the
Creation REASON ALREADY fully in effect since creation of mankind when it
was made a Holy Day for mankind.
God warns Cain that he needs to gain the victory over sin - but does not tell him
what sin IS.
God tells us that Noah took in clean animals by sevens and unclean by twos - but
does not tell us WHAT defines the difference until Leviticus.
Rather than turning Genesis into a bunch of non-sensical verses - it is better to
simply accept the micro-views it provides for US and understand that all the
related detail is simply passed over in the narrative. Genesis gives us a glimpse of
"origins" but not an exhaustive account of 2500 years of history.
#2
Jim
God did command the children of Israel to keep the Sabbath as a day of rest, but
they are the only people the Bible ever tells us were commanded to keep the
Sabbath. He told them they were to keep the Sabbath because He had rested in
that day after the creation.
Bob
See the response to the previous point above.
Jim
However, you have shown nothing to prove that He intends for us to keep the
Sabbath
Bob
I have shown that Christ said it was MADE FOR MANKIND -
I have shown that it was MADE at Creation (not Sinai),
I have shown that God intends for "ALL MANKIND to come bow before
Him from Sabbath to Sabbath" Is 66:23
Is 56:2 "How blessed is THE MAN who does this, And the SON OF MAN who
takes hold of it; Who keeps from profaning THE SABBATH,
3 Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will
surely separate me from His people.'' Nor let the eunuch say, "Behold, I am a dry
tree.''
4 For thus says the LORD, "To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, And choose
what pleases Me, And hold fast My covenant,
5 To them I will give in My house and within My walls a memorial, And a name
better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name which
will not be cut off.
6 "Also the FOREIGNERS who join themselves to the LORD, To minister to
Him, and to love the name of the LORD, To be His servants, every one who
keeps from profaning THE Sabbath And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain And make them joyful in My
house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on
My altar; For My house will be called a house of prayer for ALL the PEOPLES.''
I have shown that ANY "man" in the OT who chose to worship God (even non-
Hebrews - explicitly mentioned) were obligated to keep Sabbath as we saw in Is
56.
Jim
God did command the children of Israel to keep the Sabbath as a day of rest, but
they are the only people the Bible ever tells us were commanded to keep the
Sabbath.
Bob
It is hard to miss the reference to "Foreigners" and that the offer is made to
mankind "The MAN who does this" - "the SON of MAN who takes hold" - it is
clearly a global reference.
Jim
We have evidence that the early church met on Sunday rather than the Sabbath.
Bob
We have "evidence" that at times they met every day (Acts 2:46)
We have "evidence" that one time they met for a farewell meeting (Acts 20:7)
We have evidence that some Christians (those in Corinth) individually set aside
savings - on the first day of each week to be donated at a later point in time. (1Cor
16:2)
But we have NO evidence that these incidentals in any way create a new Holy
First day - Blessed and Sanctified and set apart for man to observe.
In fact - the REASON for a weekly 7 day cycle REMAINS - the 7th day of the
7day week REMAINs Sabbath.
Of course we DO have Sabbath after Sabbath meetings where the OT scriptures
are studied (in the NT) as scripture is preached and evangelism is done for
Gentiles and some Jews.
But those incidentals don't create the 4th commandment nor do they constitute a
command by God to His people to keep the 7th day as a Holy Day. He already did
that - and it would take direct explicit commands from God to alter his own word
- which 'Can not be broken' John 10:35
Jim
There is no connection between Rev. 14 and the Sabbath.
Bob
Statement is simply a matter of record - the LANGUAGE of the 4th
commandment IS unique and IS found in Rev 14. The debatable part is what you
choose to do with the fact.
Rev 14:7
and he said with a loud voice, "Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of
His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea
and springs of waters.''
Exodus 20:11 " For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea
and all that is in them,
The fact that you choose to ignore that language observation in the NT is
understandable but the text remains.
Jim
Isa. 66 What about the new heavens and new earth? "One new moon to another?
This says they will all gather in Jerusalem on horses, in chariots, on mules, etc.
We are not in Jerusalem, so that cannot apply to us.}
Bob
If your point is that some parts of Isaiah 66 do not appear to apply to the time of
the New Heaven and New Earth - but rather to a restored Israel before that time
(A time when ALL nations come and worship and pay homage to the ONE true
God in Jerusalem) - I have no argument since even at THAT time - it is more than
Jews it is ALL nations worshipping God. But more pointedly even AFTER the
New Heaven and New Earth we see that it is STILL ALL mankind worshipping
on Sabbath..
Is 66:22 "For just as the new heavens and the new earth Which I make will endure
before Me,'' declares the LORD, So your offspring and your name will endure.
23 And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from Sabbath to Sabbath,
ALL MANKIND will come to bow down before Me,'' says the LORD.
My point was simply to note that God Himself declares a future time when ALL
MANKIND will be worshipping in harmony on the SAME HOLY DAY started at
creation (NOT abolished). You may not like the incidentals tossed in around that
future point in time - but the thrust of the text remains - New Earth, Sabbath, ALL
mankind. And as "scripture which can not be broken" John 10:25
(Mark 2:27-28 KJV) "And he said unto them, THE Sabbath was MADE for man,
and not man for the Sabbath: {28} Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the
Sabbath."
Jim
Man needed the rest from his labors to recuperate. That is why he says the
Sabbath was made for man.
Bob
In your statement you agree that mankind (not merely Jews) needed to rest.
You agree that Sabbath was MADE for mankind in harmony with the need to rest.
OF course God points out that it is a "day of holy convocation" in Lev 23 showing
that it is God's purpose that WORSHIP occur on that day as well. But certainly
rest is included and the application is to MANKIND as your statement agrees.
Actually Christ does not give a reason for why the 7th day was MADE Holy for
the benefit of mankind in Mark 2.
Sabbath is a HOLY DAY that can only be kept by resting as God did in Gen 2:1-4
(according to God's review of it).
Jim
It wasn't made to have something that man must comply with, but because it was
a needed benefit for man. God rested after His labors, so man also need a rest
Bob
Your argument is that the 4th commandment should not have been stated in the
form of an imperative (command) by God.
Jim
How do you know that God was creating a memorial when He sanctified the
seventh day after creation? What proof is there. When He gave the command to
keep the Sabbath to the children of Israel, then He made a memorial out of the
Sabbath
Bob
Your argument is that the mere historical facts in Gen 1-2 were insufficient to
justify keeping the holy seventh day - holy.
See point 1 at the start of this post.
God argues the Gen 2 facts ARE sufficient to establish the fact that the Holy
Seventh day is to be kept holy.
Jim
When Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper as a memorial of His death (his body and
his blood), He didn't leave us guessing. Neither does God leave us guessing
whenever He creates a memorial. Had he been creating a memorial at the time of
creation, He would have told us how to remember it. He did not say anything
about remembering it until he gave the law to Israel.
Bob
I don't think we need to Guess that the 7th day was made a Holy Day for mankind
("made for Man").
See response to the first point at the top of this message.
Your argument is from the silence of the text - and would urge that Cain could not
possibly have known that murder was sin.
We agree that though no Genesis statement is found regarding coveting - it was
still a sin. How much more can we agree that having EXPLICITLY identified the
holy 7th day of Creation MADE for mankind - it WAS known and the week did
Exist.
Jim
God does not set up memorials by osmosis. He tells us in no uncertain terms what
He wants us to do about it.
Bob
The book of origins (Genesis) does not provide for US all the details on God's
"Laws and statutes and commandments" Gen 26:5 that were known EVEN then.
Your argument is that God never gave any other information but Gen 26 tells us
He did - just that it is not recorded in detail for US to read until the SAME author
gets to it in Exodus.
See the points made to the first rebuttal statement at the top of this msg.
Jim
He told the children of Israel to sanctify themselves, to be holy. Did that make
them a memorial? Of course not..
Bob
It required ACTION on their part to COMPLY with what God identified as
something to be sanctified - made holy. God sanctifies and man complies with
that directive.
When God sanctified (made Holy ) the 7th day it required man to take action in
obedience to God's act. And man's ACTION is needed in your example as well.
Jim
Neither did sanctifying the seventh day, make it a memorial, as you claim.
Bob
It is God's claim in the language of Exodus 20 that by sanctifying the 7th day
(making it a Holy day) HE WAS setting up a memorial in Genesis.
Jim
Notice that God said that "he rested on the seventh day, and therefore he blessed
and hallowed the Sabbath day". It doesn't say He had made a memorial out of it.
Bob
this quote is found both in Exodus 20 and Gen 2.
Jim
He was doing that (making it a memorial) in Exod. 20:8-11.
Bob
You admit that quoting the same text in Exodus 20 makes it a memorial to be kept
holy as a Holy Day MADE for mankind.
God's claim IN Exodus 20 is that the Gen 2 fact established that already.
Jim
1. Where in the Bible is the first time man is commanded to keep the Sabbath as a
day of rest?
You agree the first time is in Exod. 20:8, at Sinai. You say it was "handed to
mankind as a Holy Day in Genesis 2." Now where are we ever told it was
"handed to man", or something similar, before the exodus? BCV. It was given to
man in Exod. 20:8-11.}
Bob
See answer to point #1 above.
Jim
2. What evidence is there in the Bible that men kept the Sabbath before the
children of Israel left Egypt?
You use a lot of words to give no evidence.
Bob
The "words" I used referred to the following biblical "evidence"
Gen 2:1-4 says it was MADE a Holy day THEN Exodus 20 tells us a holy day
must be "KEPT Holy"
Murder was STILL a sin - Gen 4 points this out, even though not a SINGLE one
of the 10 commandments is quoted in any part in Gen - (except for Gen 2:1-4)
Romans 7:7 The 10 commandments define sin
Rom 5:13 where there IS NO LAW there is no sin
Gen 26:5 God's "Laws, statutes and commandments" existed in Gen but not
detailed for OUR review until Exodus.
Jim
3. To whom is the Law of Moses addressed?
You gave no answer but a sarcastic question about to whom the Colossian letter
was addressed.
Bob
My answer was not intended to be taken as sarcastic but as identifying the very
point of scripture
- ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God AND is profitable for "doctrine
and correction" 2Tim 3:16.
Paul is no more limited to the Colossians than Moses to the Hebrews - So we see
Moses quoted authoritatively by NT authors.
It is a basic and fundamental principle of scripture we are addressing.
Jim
4. Where in the New Testament is any command given to the church that Jesus
built that keeping the Sabbath is required? Matt. 16:18
Bob
"If you love Me KEEP My commandments" John 14:15
Can we agree that Christ is God - and therefore when He created mankind and
then decided to make the 7th day Holy - that IS Christ giving HIS people the ONE
Holy Day made at creation?
Can we also agree that as God He also gave His nation-church, the Hebrew
people at Sinai - the 10 commandments?"
Jim
I'm not sure what you are driving at
Bob
My point is that Christ is ONE with the Father, in Will and Word and Purpose.
You can not bifurcate between Christ (who IS God) and God.
Jim
but the Hebrew people were not the church that Jesus built and died to save. They
were called the "church in the wilderness" in Acts 7:38
Bob
38 "This is the one who was in the congregation in the wilderness together with
the angel who was speaking to him on Mount Sinai, and who was with our
fathers; and he received living oracles to PASS ON TO YOU..
The Living Oracles - God's Word - OT - was INTENDED to be passed on TO US
- it is intended for us.
"God so loved THE WORLD that HE GAVE His only Son that WHOSOEVER
believes on Him..." John 3:16.
Enoch was saved - and even taken to heaven according to Heb 11 and Gen 5.
Romans 11 points out that we are grafted into the SAME place from which the
Jews fell AND that God wants to put the Jews BACK into the place from which
they fell. Rom 11:19-24
They become a warning to US as WE are in THEIR former position.
Jim
So, I'm not sure what continuity you mean.
Bob
God desires to RE-establish them WITH US in that FORMER position IN the
body of Christ.
" they ALL drank from the SAME SPIRITUAL PETRA which FOLLOWED
them that PETRA was CHRIST" 1Cor 10:4
"This is the one who was in the congregation in the wilderness together with the
angel who was speaking to him on Mount Sinai, and who was with our fathers;
and he received living oracles to pass on to you." Acts 7:38
Jim
, but they were only the shadow of the church of Christ. Christ did not give His
church the 10 commandments.
Bob
Christ HIMSELF states to HIS people "IF you love Me KEEP MY
COMMANDMENTS" John 14:15 -
This refers to the commandments AS they existed prior to ANYTHING nailed to
the cross.
Jim
You keep talking about the law not being destroyed or abolished. I agree. The law
was not destroyed. Jesus came to fulfill it, not to destroy it. Matt. 5:17. When He
fulfilled it, he filled it full. He completed it.
Bob
Then Christ perfectly fulfilled the Law of Moses Deut 6:5 "Love God with all
your heart"
Christ perfectly fulfilled the Law of Moses Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as
yourself"
That 'Royal Law" (as James calls it in James 2) that forms the basis for all God's
Law was perfectly fulfilled by Christ in accordance with your statement.
But these are prescriptive laws - like the speed limit. Keeping them once does not
make them void.
Jim
With his death on the cross as the perfect sacrifice, he fulfilled the law and took it
out of the way.
Bob
The Law regarding marriage does not "predict" Christ's death and therefore is not
"fulfilled" by His death. - It remains.
The Creator's Sabbath given before sin did not "predict" Christ's death and is
therefore not "fulfilled" by His dying. Neither is there in it's language "remember
to die for the sins of mankind" - nothing in it's text requires it's author to die.
Col 2:13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of
your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our
transgressions,
Col 2: 14having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against
us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to
the cross.
Notice the context is that of MAKING YOU ALIVE, and solving the problem of
you being DEAD IN TRANSGRESSION. Instead of solving the "Sabbath
problem" it was solving the "sin" problem.
What DEFINES our Transgression?
(Rom 5, 7 tell us that the LAW defines NOT what Sins we commit, but what SIN
IS). So then, what records/defines what each person's DEBT IS?
What is "the CERTIFICATE of DEBT" - the LAW? What defines WHAT
penalty you owe? The Law places all UNDER SIN - even TODAY. IF the LAW
was abolished and DID NOT place ALL under sin - ALL would no longer need a
Savior.
The LAW of God - REMAINS the BASIS for knowing what is SIN (Rom 7:6-11)
but it is NOT A record of INDIVIDUALLY accumulated DEBT. (That part is
obvious). But we are told (in Daniel 7) that "the books were opened" and in Rev
20 we find that the dead are to be judged ACCORDING to their DEEDS out of
those books.
2Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each
one may be recompensed for his DEEDS in the body, according to what HE has
DONE, whether good or bad.
Christ took the "stroke due us" the DEBT of DEATH (Rom 6) was PAID,
NAILED to the CROSS. IT is the DEBT that is PAID - the "certificate of DEBT"
which itself "CONSISTS OF DECREES AGAINST US". No commandment
says "Burn in hell x-amount for 5 transgressions of the 1st commandment, 3 of
the second, 25 of the third..." that is not the format for the commandments.
Rather they define what IS right and wrong, NOT what DEBT of suffering is
owed (and then how much) for each infraction.
Obviously when the police write out a ticket with a fine attached, then when the
FINE is CANCELED (via PAYMENT) - the LAW that defines obedience and
violation - is not ALSO cancelled.
Also note that the LAW that defines our sin - is NOT some local LAW specific
only to the Hebrew nation. It MUST be the LAW that defines DEBT and for
which the CROSS was intended as PAYMENT. That can only be ONE LAW –
the Moral LAW. (Without IT there is NO debt, NO Sin Rom 5).
Jim
Notice that Paul said "handwriting of ordinances".
Bob
"Certificate of Debt" (NASB) consisting of "decrees against us" . (The wages of
sin is death).
Rom 6:23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in
Christ Jesus our Lord.
ONE problem (sin) and ONE solution (substitutionary death of Christ PAYING
our DEBT -- )
Jim
When the law was fulfilled, it had served its purpose.
Bob
(Gal 3:16-27 KJV) "{17} And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed
before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after,
cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
{18} For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave
it to Abraham by promise.
In Galations 3 we have these facts established
1. Vs 6 - the Gospel was preached to Abraham - so that even HE would know that
"having begun by the Spirit" he was NOT earning his way to heaven "by the
flesh".
2 Vs 10 - The LAW places EVERYONE (OT and NT) under a curse. All are
under SIN (even today) (Vs 22)- And God's LAW IS scripture as used in the NT (vs 22)
3. Vs 13 Christ came to redeem us from the CURSE (not to break His
Word/Law/Scripture)
4. Vs 17, 21 God's LAW at Sinai did not contradict the Gospel/promise given 430
years EARLIER - they both existed at the same time at Sinai.
5. Vs 18, the LAW of God could NOT save - it was never a means of salvation,
ONLY the Gospel (430 earlier) was.
6. Vs 22-24 - TODAY everyone is shut up under sin UNTIL WE BELIEVE –
until we express FAITH. When FAITH comes we are no longer under the
condemnation (death sentence) of the LAW. Instead we have the Law written on
the tablets of the human heart.
Bob
"Christ affirms that His own Law can not be broken. It can only be fulfilled. Matt
5:"
(Mat 5:17-18 KJV) "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:
I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
{18} For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle
shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
Jim
I assume this is the passage to which you refer. Jesus is saying that he came to
fulfill the law, not to destroy it. He said it will not be diminished until he has
fulfilled it. He did not say his law could not be broken.
Bob
Yes - Matt 5 states that it will not pass away - and John 10:35 "The scripture can
not be broken".
Matt 5 points out how Christ deepens and strengthens the meaning of His own
law given at Sinai..
Matt 5:18 "For truly I say to you, UNTIL HEAVEN and EARTH pass away, not
the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these COMMANDMENTS, and
teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but
whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of
heaven.
20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes
and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
21 "You have heard that the ancients were told, " YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT
MURDER' and "Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.'
22 "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty
before the court; and whoever says to his brother, " You good-for-nothing,' shall
be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, "You fool,' shall be guilty
enough to go into the fiery hell.
Christ points this out BEFORE the cross - it was true then and it is true today (and
it was true before the flood). One problem (sin) one solution (Christ).
Jim
Christ is/was the only one who could fulfill the law and he did this on the cross.
Bob
On the Cross Christ paid the debt that His law demands. And you are correct –
Christ fulfilled Christ's Law/God's Law ALL of it- including the Royal Law Deut
6:5 "Love God" and Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor".
Fulfilled - but not abolished.
Bob:
"There is also no statement in scripture that any of God's 10 commandments are
to be voided if not re-quoted by a later writer. So we conclude that the 3rd
commandment remains in force - as do all of God's 10 commandments - since
they apply to mankind not simply Hebrews."
Jim
Of course there isn't.
Bob
Agreement is good when we get it.
Jim
The Ten Commandments were nailed to the cross with the rest of the Law of
Moses.
Bob
No text says that.
Jim
The doctrine of Christ does include injunctions against all of the evils the Ten
Commandments prohibited, except for the Sabbath commandment.
Bob
Speculation - you gave no evidence stating this.
Jim
That is your problem that you are trying to get around. Jesus nor his apostles
never commanded his church to keep the Sabbath.
Bob
"If you love me Keep My Commandments" John 14:15 - the PRE-Cross
Commandments of God commanded to be kept EVEN as God is walking among
men - Pre-Cross - God the Son is Christ.
Christ did not repeat His Sinai Commandment "you shall not covet" (nor did any
of the 12 repeat it). Nor did any NT author repeat the 3rd commandment against
taking God's name in vain. But that does not matter SINCE there is no such law
about voiding Christ's LAW given at Sinai if it is not repeated constantly.
Jim
His church did not keep the Sabbath
Bob
We have no evidence telling us they did not keep the Sabbath. The fact that
Sabbath is not mentioned between Joshua through 1Kings DOES NOT mean that
'the Hebrews did not keep Sabbath'. Arguments from the void of what the NT
does NOT say can't work - Sabbath is not mentioned from Judges to 1Kings - yet
we can't argue that they did not keep it.
Bob:
"Beyond this - Paul just comes right out and tells us in Hebrews 4 "there
REMAINS therefore a Sabbath REST for the People of God". None of the
Sabbath FEAST days listed in Lev 23 have the REST focus absent the sacrifices –
that we see in the Creator's 7th day Sabbath of the Commandment."
Jim
There remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for the church.
Bob
True - Paul makes this point in Heb 4.
Jim
We call it heaven.
Bob
Paul does not mention that in Heb 4. Would be nice if he did.
Here is what we do find in Heb 4.
1. (Vs 2) - WE have had the same "good news" (gospel) preached to US "JUST as
they also" as did the OT people of God at Sinai.
2. (Vs 7) We also have the same salvation promises given to God's Sabbath-
keeping people in the days of King David
3. There "REMAINS" a Sabbath rest (as in the Creation week Sabbath --- God
Rested on the Seventh-day) for today's Saints just as in the case of the OT saints.
Jim
We call it heaven. That is the Christian's Sabbath. I will discuss this more fully in
my first affirmative, but for now you can read Heb. 4:8-11 carefully to see how it
compares to God's rest at creation.
Bob
Good point - it makes an excellent comparison.
Jim
You'll learn why we do not keep the seventh day Sabbath. You'll see that the
seventh day Sabbath was only a shadow of good things to come.
Bob
That would be helpful in making your case - if you can do it - I am all ears.
Jim
5. Where in the New Testament do we find any example of the church assembling
on the Sabbath?
Bob
Sabbath is the ONLY week day were we find explicit description of week after
week assembly in the NT - for ANY reason.
Acts 13:14 But going on from Perga, they arrived at Pisidian Antioch, and on the
Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down.
Acts 13:42 As Paul and Barnabas were going out, the people kept begging that
these things might be spoken to them the next Sabbath.
44 The next Sabbath nearly the whole city assembled to hear the word of the
Lord.
45 But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began
contradicting the things spoken by Paul, and were blaspheming.
This is a problem because the Gentiles were ACCEPTING the messages while the
Jews were predominantly rejecting it. The Disciples SHOULD have informed the
Gentiles that they NEED NOT wait until NEXT Sabbath to hear more messages –
they could hear them at church tomorrow - you know - 1st day. INSTEAD they
ask these gentiles to come back NEXT Sabbath.
Acts 17:2 And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three
Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, ...
4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a
LARGE number of the God-fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women.
EVERY Sabbath
Acts 18:4 And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to
persuade Jews AND Greeks.
Prayer meeting on Sabbath
Acts 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to a riverside, where
we were supposing that there would be a place of prayer; and we sat down and
began speaking
The CHURCH expect that ALL it's members attended church each Sabbath and
HEARD the Scriptures read?
Acts 15:THINGS KNOWN FROM LONG AGO.
19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to
God from among the Gentiles,
20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols
and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.
21 For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him,
since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.
they met even EVERY day including Sabbath
Acts 2:46 Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread
from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and
sincerity of heart,
47 praising God and having favor with all the people
No more explicit detailed weekly assemblies are recorded in the NT other than
these Sabbath meetings mentioned here.
Bob
Cary, NC