Proposition: 
 The Christian may celebrate December 25th as a 
 national holiday.
 
 Affirm:  Larry Bunch
 Deny:  Jason Stringer
 Greetings to all from Waco, Texas.  Jason Stringer here sitting 
 here a little confused as to exactly where Larry is going with 
 his first affirmative on the proposition that "The Christian may 
 celebrate December 25th as a national holiday."
 
 Larry is trying to couch his arguments in terms that no one can 
 disagree with, and in so doing he misses the point of my 
 objections to the Christian "celebrating" this holiday.
 
 I have no qualm with a Christian celebrating a "National 
 Holiday," such as July 4, Thanksgiving, Memorial Day, Veteran's 
 Day, George Birthington's Washday, etc. etc. etc., ad infinitum.  
 What I do have qualms about are the ways in which these days are 
 celebrated and the Christian's role in celebrating them.
 
 I admit that I do not work on the holiday known as Christmas, but 
 that's not my choice.  I have told every employer that I have 
 ever worked for that I would be glad to come in on that day and 
 work, as to me it is simply just another day of the year.  Our 
 "family tradition" for this day is to get up in the morning, eat 
 breakfast, and go about our business of projects around the house 
 (since I live alone, that is usually cleaning up the kitchen and 
 then studying a little, watching a football game, and taking a 
 nap.)
 
 Now, let's look at what Larry has to say.
 
 First let's look at Larry's definition of a "Holiday" when he 
 writes:
 
 "5) Holiday - 1: holy day 2: a day on which one is exempt from 
 work; specif : a day marked by a general suspension of work in 
 COMMEMORATION OF AN EVENT. (c)1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. and 
 Merriam-Webster, Incorporated.  All rights reserved."
 
 Jason writes:
 I capped those words at the end of the definition myself to 
 emphasize them.  What event was this holiday established to 
 commemorate?  Ask any 8 year-old child you come across what 
 people are celebrating when it comes to this "holiday" and they 
 will tell you the birth of Christ.  Herein is the problem:  There 
 is no command, example, or inference that Larry can site in the 
 New Testament that tells us to commemorate the Birth of Christ. I 
 asked him to do it earlier in this discussion and he dropped the 
 argument like a lead balloon.  Why?  Because it is not there.  
 The crux of my objection lies right here.  When Larry, or anyone 
 else who claims to be a Christian puts up the trappings that the 
 world uses for this holiday they are compromising their influence 
 with these people.  Without letting them know they object to it 
 as a celebration of the Birth of Christ, they are giving their 
 approval to what they are doing.
 
 Then Larry tries to get clever and defines Christmas thusly:
  
 "6) To be fair about the matter, we define "Christmas": [ME 
 Christemasse, fr. OE Cristes mæsse, lit., Christ's mass] 1: a 
 Christian feast on December 25 or among some Eastern Orthodox on 
 January 7 that commemorates the birth of Christ and is usu. 
 observed as a legal holiday (c) a festival or holiday 
 commemorating the birth of Christ (gave presents on Christmas)
 (c)1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated.  
 All rights reserved."
 
 But he sees that will destroy his arguments so he adds this 
 footnote:
 
 "When I speak of celebrating the 25th of December, I am speaking 
 of doing so as a national holiday."
 
 Jason writes:
 Which is it, Larry?  A commemoration of the Birth of Christ, or a 
 National Holiday?   You're trying to have your cake and eat it 
 too.  Your own definition here does not allow for your 
 interpretation.  Now, you may not view it as such, but if this is 
 the best definition you can come up with you condemn yourself in 
 your arguments.  You make it sound as if you can separate the 
 two, when you cannot.  Once again, we come to the perception, if 
 this is the proper definition of Christmas, that people have.  A 
 "Christian feast . . . . that commemorates the birth of Christ . 
 . . . observed as a legal holiday" that says it all, Larry.  The 
 only reason Dec. 25 is on the calendar as a "Legal Holiday" is 
 because of the perception of people that it is the birth of 
 Christ.
 
 Then Larry writes in reference to his definitions:
 "2): There is nothing in God's Word that would prohibit a 
 Christian from observing a national holiday. There is no 
 principle that is violated in so doing. "
 
 Jason writes:
 I beg to differ, Larry.  The MANNER in which one observes a 
 national holiday can be displeasing to God. Many people get drunk 
 on the 4th of July.  Is this pleasing to God?  Many people become 
 gluttons on Thanksgiving.  Is this pleasing to God?  A lot of 
 people put decorations around their home for Christmas that give 
 the impression that they are celebrating it as the Birth of 
 Christ, is this pleasing to God?
 
 Do you realize, Larry that when you drive down the road and you 
 come to a red sign with eight sides you are supposed to stop.  
 Doesn't matter if the word "STOP" is on the sign?  Or a 
 triangular sign that is red and white you are supposed to yield.  
 Doesn't matter if the word "YIELD" is on the sign. In my 
 affirmatives you left the arguments about symbolism alone.  Now 
 it's time to deal with them. What do the symbols that you put up 
 say about your manner of celebrating this "National Holiday"?
 
 Then Larry writes:
  "3): We do not intend for the "solemn ceremonies" to have 
 reference to anything done that would recognize Dec. 25th as a 
 religious holiday. "
 
 Jason writes: 
 You may not recognize it as so, but what about those who see you, 
 Larry?  We've been over this before.  Those who see you taking 
 part with them believe they have your approval in what they're 
 doing!  Plain and simple. Now, Larry, if you don't care about 
 your influence over others, I can't help that other than to tell 
 you that you're wrong and you're going to have to answer for it.  
 
 Larry now tries to back out of his definition of Christmas by 
 writing:
 
 "5): We do not regard Dec. 25th as a "Holy Day" and so we 
 "observe" it in the same manner as we observe the day of 
 Thanksgiving or July 4th. We observe it as a "day marked by a 
 general suspension of work" but (except for the date and non-
 religious things) not "in commemoration of an event," 
 specifically, Christ's birthday."
 
 Jason here again: 
 I hate sounding like a broken record, but here it goes again.  
 What "you" think is not important.  What do the people you might 
 have an influence for truth on think?  I suppose I can wear my 
 Masonic Ring that I mentioned in my first affirmative as long as 
 I know the truth about Masonry?  Not Hardly. I don't want to give 
 the perception that I am in agreement with the Masonic Lodge and 
 their "religion" (anyone out there want to debate that matter?)  
 To me it's just a compass with a square underneath it and a big G 
 in the middle of it.  Means nothing to me.  What about the person 
 who sees me with it on? They are going to think differently.
 
 Then, Larry backtracks some more by writing: 
 "We simply observe it as it is "usually observed," as a legal 
 holiday."
 
 Jason again: 
 Why observe it at all?  Why is it a "legal holiday"?  It is a 
 legal holiday because the Congress of the United States declared 
 it to be so.  Why not pick another date for giving gifts and 
 family get together?  Because this is the traditional day for 
 Christmas. The celebration of the Birth of Jesus Christ!  If it 
 were not for that commemoration, then there would be no such 
 holiday on Dec. 25.  It all hinges on what the people of the 
 world believe as Christ's birth, a holiday that they hold with 
 high religious significance.  Once again, Larry, do you care 
 about the influence you have on others?
 
 Then Larry sums up by saying: 
 "To insist we cannot observe the 25th of December in this manner 
 is to deny us our liberty and the privilege of observing any 
 other holiday."
 
 Jason again: 
 Your not observing it in the manner that you observe "any other 
 holiday" including the ones that you mentioned.  I assume from 
 what you said when I was in the affirmative that you put up 
 lights around your house.  Why?  Because everyone else is doing 
 it.  You wear a Santa Pin on your lapel.  Why?  Because everyone 
 else is doing it.  Tell me, Larry, do you wish people you meet a 
 "Merry CHRISTmas"?  Why?  Because everyone else is doing it.  I 
 believe when you say  this you are taking the name of the Lord in 
 vain!
 
 Then Larry ends it by saying this: 
 "I started to address some objections to the Christian observing 
 this day, but on further reflection it seems prudent to wait for 
 Jason's negative."
 
 Jason here: 
 OK, Larry, why not?  Are you afraid you can't address the 
 objections?  The objections are there. Now it's up to you to deal 
 with them.  
 
 SUMMARY: 
 Larry tries to be cagey and clever to steer the debate over to a 
 matter of liberty, and to tell us that since HE observes it with 
 no religious significance the REST OF THE WORLD should know that, 
 even though he gives them no indication that he is not observing 
 it in the same way they are.  Even though he does all of the 
 things that they do.  Even though his observation leaves the 
 impression with them that he's going along with them.
 
 What about being transformed from this world, Larry?  What about 
 keeping yourself "unspotted" from this world, Larry?  You can't 
 do it when you lend your approval to what the world does.
 
 Sincerely,
 
 Jason E. Stringer