Stringer/Bunch Debate on Christmas

 
 
 Proposition: 
 It is sinful for the Christian to celebrate the holiday known as 
 Christmas, even if they attach no religious significance to it.
 
 Affirmed: Jason E. Stringer
 Denied:   Larry Bunch
 
 Larry Writes: 
 Note that I have added my middle initial to the 
 above since I always sign my name in this way.
 
 Jason Wrote: 
 Some of my close friends describe me as the Grinch and Scrooge 
 because of what I believe about this day; however, I believe it 
 is an important subject, and one that we should study.
 
 Larry Writes: 
 I'm in agreement with Jason regarding the importance of studying 
 this subject, as well as any other subject. And it matters not 
 what folks call us, if we have convictions, we must ~live~ 
 according to those convictions.
 
 Jason Wrote: 
 For the purposes of this debate we will define the following 
 terms:
 
 Larry Writes: 
 I see nothing amiss in Jason's definitions.
 
 Jason Wrote: 
 This debate is also not about observation of a national holiday 
 as my opponent would believe, this debate IS about what a 
 Christian may do in observance of a day that the rest of the 
 world views with high religious significance.>
 
 Larry Writes: 
 Jason has presupposed some of my arguments and I guess this is 
 okay but it does ~not~ reflect ~how~ I will answer his 
 proposition!
 
 Jason Wrote: 
 1. December 25 is regarded by the world as the birthday of Jesus 
 Christ.
 
 Larry Writes: 
 Jason wrote Also, this debate is not 
 about whether the date December 25 is the birth of Jesus Christ.
 And then starts out discussing this very thing! So, I am going to 
 assume that what he means about the debate is not about is in 
 regards to what he and I believe is the truth about the matter 
 (regarding the birth of Christ).
 
 Jason Wrote: 
 I believe my opponent will argue that the days of the week are 
 named for Greek gods,
 
 Larry Writes: 
 Jason makes and answers what he believes are my arguments. And 
 supposes he ~kills~ this particular argument. However, he doesn't 
 succeed! What he is saying is that it is alright to recognize 
 certain days so long as no one attaches religious significance to 
 that day. How do I know no one attaches such significance to the 
 days? How do I know there are no Sun worshippers today (Sunday)? 
 And I don't think that has any relevance to the argument. What 
 about when the days were first named? Did Christians have to 
 ~ignore~ the names of the days of the week? (Note: I am not a 
 historian and do not know ~when~ the days of the week were named 
 but am fairly certain that there were idolaters and Christians 
 during the time the days of the week were applicable. World Book 
 Encyclopedia: "Sunday was the day sacred to the sun among the old 
 Teutonic peoples.  Its name means the 'day of the sun. '" 
 "Teutonic Knights, pronounced too TAHN ihk, was the name of an 
 organization of German crusaders that arose in Europe during the 
 1100's. The Teutonic Knights were organized for service in the 
 Holy Land.  They modeled their organization after two earlier 
 crusading orders, the Knights Templars and the Knights 
 Hospitallers. In the 1200's, the Teutonic Knights shifted their 
 activities to central Europe, where they tried to convert and 
 control the people of what became Prussia, Lithuania, Latvia, and 
 Estonia. Their power and influence spread throughout central and 
 eastern Europe.  In the 1300's, the Teutonic Knights lost much of 
 their power, and finally the Poles and Lithuanians overthrew 
 them.  In 1525, the Grand Master, Albert of Hohenzollern, 
 embraced Protestantism, and changed the Order from a religious to 
 a civil organization.  In 1618, the Order's territory passed to 
 the Hohenzollern Elector of Brandenburg.)"
 
 Jason Wrote: 
 (or as my opponent will probably call it Xmas which is a non-
 argument, because the letter X is the Greek letter Chi,
 
 Larry Writes: 
 Now, Jason, how many folks know that? Are you telling me that no 
 one knows that the days of the week are named after idols but 
 everyone knows what the Greek letter X is? And when I use the 
 English X in a sentence or word, it automatically becomes Greek? 
 I use the term Xmas simply for shortening ~and~ to avoid putting 
 my Lord's name in the word ~in the English.~
 
 Jason Wrote: 
 2. (argument from example)
 
 Larry Writes: 
 While it is true we are to set the proper example before others, 
 there ~must~ be a ~limit~ to which we will go! Why? Because 
 ~someone~ will object to ~anything~ you do! And while I am to set 
 an example before others of my being a Christian, I do not have 
 to be guided and forced to conform my life by what everyone else 
 thinks.
 
 1) I put Halloween decorations in the yard. Some may think I'm a 
 Devil Worshipper!
 2) My wife sometimes wears ankle-length dresses. Some may think 
 she is a Pentecostal!
 3) Sometimes she wears dresses to the knee. Some may think she is 
 a Jezebel!
 4) When my children were at home, we hunted Easter eggs. Some may 
 think I believe ~that~ is a religious holiday to observe!
 5) I eat meat regularly. Some folks might think I'm a very bad 
 sinner for doing that!
 6) Luke 7:33-34 "For John the Baptist has come eating no bread 
 and drinking no wine; and you say, 'He has a demon!' The Son of 
 Man has come eating and drinking; and you say, 'Behold, a 
 gluttonous man, and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and 
 sinners!'"
 
 So, you see, there is no way we can live so as to ~please~ 
 everyone - nor should we try!
 
 Jason Wrote: 
 2. The Christian is not to engage in such activities. You observe 
 days. . . .I am afraid of you. (Gal.4:10-11).
 
 Larry Writes: 
 Jason goes ahead and says I can't appeal to Rom.14 regarding 
 this-it is talking about eating meat offered to idols. However, 
 Jason, observing ~days~ is also included (v.5 One man regards one 
 day above another, another regards every day [alike.] Let each 
 man be fully convinced in his own mind.) and there are principals 
 in Rom.14 that are applicable to many situations today. While you 
 want to deny me the use of Rom.14, you use another passage that 
 has to do with the observing of Jewish rites! (Gal.4:10-11) Adam 
 Clarke's Commentary: "Verse 10. Ye observe days] Ye 
 superstitiously regard the Sabbaths and particular days of your 
 own appointment; And months]  New moons; times-festivals, such as 
 those of tabernacles, dedication, passover, &c. Years.]  Annual 
 atonements, sabbatical years, and jubilees. Verse 11. I am afraid 
 of you] I begin now to be seriously alarmed for you, and think 
 you are so thoroughly perverted from the Gospel of Christ, that 
 all my pains and labour in your conversion have been thrown 
 away."
 
 Jason Wrote: 
 Friends, the Holiday known as Christmas has been designated by 
 the world as a meat offered to an idol. We may not partake of it, 
 lest we offend some brother, or cause some other soul to be lost.
 
 Larry Writes: 
 ?? I have never heard of Xmas being a meat offered to idols! This 
 is an unfounded argument so far as I am able to ascertain. So far 
 as ~offending~ a brother is concerned, I do not know of anyone I 
 have offended (caused to stumble) because I observe the national 
 holiday known as Xmas! To ~offend~ a brother means ~more~ than to 
 do something he disagrees with, it means to do something that 
 will cause him to sin, to stumble so as to fall and not get up! 
 "4624.  skandalizw  skandalizo,  skan-dal-id'-zo from 4625; to 
 entrap, i.e. trip up (figuratively, stumble (transitively) or 
 entice to sin, apostasy or displeasure):--(make to) offend." 
 Rom.14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor 
 any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is ~offended,~ or is 
 made weak. 1 Cor.8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to 
 ~offend,~ I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I 
 make my brother to ~offend.~ If I abstained from ~everything~ my 
 brother ~objects~ to, then we would 
 1) use one container for the fruit of the vine on the Lord's Table; 
 2) have no classes for different ages of folks; 
 3) my wife would wear a dress down to her ankles; 
 4) all women would wear a doily or something on their head during 
 worship; etc.
 
 Jason Wrote: 
 3. The world is attached to symbols. . . . If I believe Masonry 
 to be a false religion, and I know others who also believe it to 
 be a religion, and I am wearing such a display, do I not condone 
 what they are practicing? See Romans 1:31.
 
 Larry Writes: 
 I fail to see what Rom.1:31 has to do with it. Wearing a Masonic 
 Ring signifies one is a Mason and Masonry is wrong. Wearing a 
 Santa on my coat lapel signifies I like old Santa and any other 
 connotations attached thereto are arbitrary.
 
 --brotherly, Larry (1510 words; Jason's had 1372 words)