BALLARD/STROM DEBATE ON BAPTISM

 
 
The Scriptures teach that water baptism to a believing penitent is for the remission 
of his sins.
 
Affirm: Voyd N. Ballard 
Deny: Bob Strom

BALLARD'S 3RD AFFIRMATIVE ON BAPTISM 
All Scripture quotations from KJV unless otherwise specified. 
Capital letters for emphasis only. 
****************************************** 
Bob has seesawed back and forth on when the sinner is saved until it is impossible 
to determine what he really believes. One time he has him saved by "FAITH 
ONLY" then he has him saved by "GRACE ONLY", and in his second rebuttal he 
says "one who HEARS and confesses is saved." He says "faith is the root of 
obedience." He makes these contradictions in an attempt to off set a principal I set 
forth in my very first affirmative which is: But there is not one place anywhere in 
the Bible where anyone was ever said to be saved or justified by his faith until 
that faith acted in obedience to God.

The above is simply saying that when God commands man must obey to be 
justified by God, and that justification has never come to any man until he did 
obey the command. When Jesus commanded the Apostles to go into all the world 
and preach the gospel He said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" 
(Mark 16:16) No statement could possibly be plainer. Belief + Baptism = 
Salvation. Belief minus Baptism is DEAD being alone (Jas.2) 

If General Motors should announce that "He that believeth and is baptized shall 
receive a New Cadillac" there would be such a stampede to the creeks, rivers, and 
baptisteries as the world has never witnessed, and Bob Strom would lead that 
stampede, and right behind him would come every Sectarian Preacher in this land. 
Not a one of them would claim the Cadillac on his faith alone without baptism. I 
said that to a Baptist preacher one time in an oral debate and that preacher spoke 
up from his seat and said, "I would be the first man into the water", and if Bob 
will be honest he will say the same. What say ye, Bob? 

Matt.28:18-20 is a parallel passage to Mark 16:16. I pointed out in my last 
affirmative that no one can be saved until and unless he comes INTO relationship 
with God, Christ and the Holy Spirit. 

Bob says,
"Ooops! Mistake again. Matt.28 tells us to MAKE disciples Then to Baptize." 
(Quoting from the NASB). 

He ignores the argument completely that, according to Jesus in this passage, we 
are baptized INTO the name of God, Christ and the Holy Spirit. I think Bob wells 
knows that a disciple is a "learner" or "follower" so when the preaching of the 
gospel makes "learners" or "followers" of Christ they learn that the Lord requires 
baptism if they are to "follow" Him INTO this Divine relationship. No mistake 
here, and I deny the allegation and charge the Alligator (Bob) to produce one 
passage of Scripture where any person ever believed INTO Christ. Bob keeps 
quoting Rom.10: 9-10 in a vain attempt to prove that one is saved by FAITH 
ONLY.  This passage (nor any other passage) proves salvation by FAITH ONLY. 
Sure the passage teaches that we are saved by faith, but faith leads us UNTO (in 
the direction toward) salvation. 

I pointed out in my 2nd. Affirmative that: The Bible teaches that the sinner is 
"dead in trespasses and sin." (Eph.2:1) In order to leave the kingdom of sin 
(darkness) he must: 
Hear the Gospel: Rom.10:17 - 1Cor.1:21 
Believe in Christ: Jno. 8-24 - Heb. 11:6 
Repent of sins: Acts 2:38 - Acts 17:30-31 
Confess Christ: Acts 8:37 - Rom. 10:9 
Be Baptized: Rom.6:3-4 - Gal. 3:26-29 
In faith and repentance he dies to the love and practice of sin and in baptism he 
dies to the guilt and state of sin. 

The sinner believes UNTO-Repents UNTO-Confesses UNTO and is baptized 
INTO Christ. I challenge Bob to produce one passage that says the sinner believes 
INTO Christ. 
 
Bob said: 
The mere act of accepting Christ is ITSELF obedience - faith is completed.

This is an unscriptural statement made in an effort to try and prove that the sinner 
is saved by FAITH ALONE. To accept Christ is to have a faith that will OBEY 
him by doing what he commanded. He is the author of eternal salvation unto all 
them who obey him. (Heb.5: 8-9) Did he say just believe? NO, He said, "He that 
believes and IS BAPTIZED shall be saved” Bob flies into the face of the Lord by 
saying FAITH ONLY.

Turning to the 2nd. chapter of Acts we find the Apostles preaching the dead, 
buried, and resurrected Christ. When the people realized they were guilty of 
crucifying the Lord they cried out to Peter and the rest of the Apostles, "Men and 
brethren, what shall we do?" Then Peter said unto them, "Why, there is not a thing 
in this world you can do. just believe on the Lord and you will receive the 
remission of your sins." EH? Is that what Peter said? That is what Bob would 
have said had he been the preacher there; That however, is a far cry from what the 
inspired Peter told them. He said, "Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the 
name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the 
Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38)

The English word "For" in Acts 2:38 is from the Greek word "Eis" and is found 
1447 times in the Greek New Testament. The word is never translated "because 
of" but in all 1447 times is translated "Unto", "In order to", "toward" etc., and is 
so translated in Acts 2:38. Whatever repentance is "for" in this verse baptism is 
"for" in this verse. The word "and" (Repent AND be baptized) is what we call a 
"copulative conjunction".  A copulative conjunction joins (or couples) together 
words and phrases of equal rank and importance, so when Peter commanded them 
to "REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED, Baptism is just as important as repentance, 
and both are "for" "in order to" the remission of sins.. Eliminate baptism and see 
the command, "Repent everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the 
remission of sins." What does "for" mean--does it mean "because of"?  Repent 
because your sins have been forgiven, or repent in order to have them forgiven? 
Will Bob or any one else take the position that the sinner repents because his sins 
have been forgiven? Now put baptism back into the command, as the Bible has it-
-"Repent and be baptized everyone of you for the remission of your sins." Does 
baptism in the passage change the meaning of the word "for" in the sentence? Of 
course not! So REPENTANCE and BAPTISM are FOR the remission of sins, and 
my proposition is proven, and Bob and all the rest of the denominational 
preachers combined cannot disprove it, and they may as well try to turn the Rocky 
Mountains over with a broken cornstalk as to try it. 
 
Bob needs to prove what he is simply asserting, and he cannot do so by simply 
citing passages showing that the sinner is not saved by works of man or by works 
of the Old Law. Let him produce one passage proving that the sinner is not saved 
or justified by the works of righteousness. His position is that the sinner is saved 
by faith before and without baptism.  This is what Bob needs to prove. He is 
wasting his time arguing that the sinner is saved by faith, for this I believe as 
strongly as he dare express it. 

Bob said: 
Voyd< saves is the faith that obeys.>>As stated in the previous rebuttal - that is 
not the point in dispute. " 

Yes Sir, That is the point in dispute. You are contending that the sinner is saved 
by FAITH ALONE, before and WITHOUT OBEDIENCE, and I am contending 
that the faith of the sinner is the faith that obeys. My position is that the sinner is 
saved by FAITH and OBEDIENCE. Your position is that the sinner is saved by 
FAITH ALONE- WITHOUT OBEDIENCE.  Don't tell me "that is not the point 
of dispute." The reading audience will know better whether you do or not.

Bob says 
"I do not find in Heb.11:7 'by faith the sinner being warned of Christ is baptized 
into Christ to the saving of his soul'." 

Yes, but you do find that "by faith Noah being warned of God prepared an ark" 
don't you? That is my point, and you cannot successfully deny it.

Bob says the sinner is saved the MOMENT he believes. Here is his exact 
statement:
"At that moment - he is saved, forgiven, transformed (a new creation) reconciled 
to God." 

But the Bible teaches that reconciliation, forgiveness, and a new creation is IN 
Christ. (2Cor.5:17 - Eph.2: 13-16 - Col. 1: 12-14) So if the sinner is saved, 
forgiven, and reconciled the moment he believes he is saved, forgiven and 
reconciled OUT of Christ, for the Bible plainly teaches that we are BAPTIZED 
INTO Christ. (Rom.6: 3-4 - Gal. 3: 26-27)

Let me emphasize again that the Bible teaches that the sinner is "dead in 
trespasses and sin." (Eph.2:1) In order to leave the kingdom of sin (darkness) he 
must: 
1 Hear the Gospel: Rom.10:17 - 1Cor.1:21 
2 Believe in Christ: Jno. 8-24 - Heb. 11:6 
3 Repent of sins: Acts 2:38 - Acts 17:30-31 
4 Confess Christ: Acts 8:37 - Rom. 10:9 
5 Be Baptized: Rom.6:3-4 - Gal. 3:26-29 
In faith and repentance he dies to the love and practice of sin and in baptism he 
dies to the guilt and state of sin.
 
Concerning the above Bob made the ridiculous and false statement: 

"Step 5 can not be taken by a lost person as Paul points out in 1Cor 2 and Romans 
8. By the time we get to step 5 we are way past the point that any lost person (not 
born again, not walking in the spirit) could come to without already being born 
again " a new creation with old things passed away". 

Paul made no such point, and I am persuaded that Bob knows this. Paul made the 
point that the servants of sin had become the servants of righteousness by 
"obeying that form of doctrine which was delivered to them" (Rom. 6: 16-18) It is 
ridiculous to say they were already the children of God before they had obeyed 
that which would make them "free from sin, and servants of righteousness". 
Salvation is in Christ, and nowhere else (Acts 4: 12) and what Paul "points out" is 
that we are baptized INTO Christ (Rom. 6: 3-4) Bob, just what do you suppose is 
the matter with you to cause you to cite Matt. 7 and make such a statement? Don't 
come back and cite Rom. 10: 9 again because I have already shown that the belief 
and confession in this passage is UNTO righteousness.  You need a passage that 
says FAITH ONLY is INTO Christ. This is what you are contending-Now quit 
dancing around all over these passages that do not remotely teach that FAITH 
ONLY puts one INTO Christ. Just produce the passage that says so. But you will 
not produce it for it is not in the Book- You have four more speeches (posts) to 
produce such a passage if one exists. 

Bob says:
"Your assertion remains unproven." 

But it so happens that I have made NO assertions. I have given you Book, 
Chapter, and Verse, setting forth the Lord's plan of salvation. I have shown that 
salvation is in Christ and that the ONLY way to get into Christ is to be baptized 
INTO Him. (Rom. 6: 3-4 - Gal.3:26-29)

Furthermore I have shown that man's faith is the door of entrance into the grace of 
God. "By whom also we have access by faith into this grace where in we stand." 
Rom. 5:2. When the sinner Hears the gospel, Believe it, Repents of his sins, and is 
baptized into Christ, he can affirm that he is saved by the grace of God--But not 
before. Matt.28:18-20 - Rom. 6: 3-4 - Gal. 3: 26-29.

I pointed out in my previous affirmative that there are three classes of works set 
forth in the N.T. 
A> Works of man: Eph.2: 8-9 
B> Works of the Old Law: Rom. 3:20 
C> Works of God or Righteousness: Jno. 6:28-29 
I assume Bob does not deny the above for he said: 

"I suppose we could start a debate where I to deny some of the above as well."
 
Peter said in Acts 10: 34-35 "he that feareth God and worketh righteousness is 
accepted with him." This is simply saying he that fears and obeys God is accepted 
with him. 

Bob says, 
"Again it appears that your assertion "Old Law" is not found in the text." 

I assume Bob has never read Heb. 8:13.

In Rom. 4: 1-3 Paul affirms that Abraham was not saved by works and quotes 
Gen.15: 26 to prove it.  In Jas.2: 21-23 James affirms that Abraham was saved by 
WORKS and quotes the same Old Testament Scripture (Gen. 15:26) to prove it. 
Did these two Apostles contradict each other? GOD FORBID! 

Bob says: 
"Actually - James 2 does not say "Abraham was saved by Works". He says that 
Abraham was justified by works."

Yes, and Paul says Abraham was NOT JUSTIFIED by works (Rom. 4:2) Now are 
these two inspired men contradicting each other? Paul was talking about the 
works of the law and James was talking about the works of obedience.  Anyone 
that can see through a ladder should be able to see this!  "By faith Abraham, when 
he was tried, offered up Isaac:" (Heb. 11: 17) "Was not Abraham our father 
justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar.....Ye see then 
how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (Jas.2: 21-24) Bob 
says, "By faith only"- James says, "NOT by faith only." You take your choice. I'll 
take James. He was inspired.
 
Bob says 
"I'll take Paul - He was inspired. What a silly position - we have to take them 
both."

Quite correct Bob. We have to take them both, and I was not saying we had to 
choose between Paul and James, I was (and still am) saying we must choose 
between Bob who says "NOT WORKS-FAITH ONLY" and James who says, 
"BY WORKS-NOT FAITH ONLY" You won’t get by with that kind of stuff with 
me Bob. You know I was making a choice between the inspired James and Bob 
Strom, and I still choose James and deny that I have made a bad choice or took a 
"silly position." Furthermore the readers had better chose James if they want to 
please the Lord! 

2. Acts chapters 10 & 11 is a record of the conversion of Cornelius. He was told 
to send for Peter, "Who shall tell thee words whereby thou and thy house shall be 
saved." Peter commenced those words by telling Cornelius, "in every nation he 
that feareth him and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." (Acts 10:35) 
At the close of Peter's sermon he commanded them to be baptized in the name of 
the Lord.

Bob says,"!! another mistake.

Cornelius AND his family RECEIVE the outpouring of the Holy Spirit BEFORE 
being Baptized."

Yes, and they received the outpouring of the Spirit before they heard the words, 
"whereby thou and thy house shall be saved." Peter said the outpouring of the 
Spirit came "as I began to speak" (Acts 11: 15) Before he had spoken the words 
that would save them, therefore before they were saved. So Bob, what proves too 
much, proves nothing, and you are really going in circles on that one.  No person 
can be saved without being in relationship with God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit, 
but it is only through hearing the gospel, believing it, repenting of sins, confessing 
Christ, and being baptized that one enters into this relationship.