BALLARD/STROM DEBATE ON BAPTISM

 
 
 The Scriptures teach that water baptism to a believing penitent is for the remission 
of his sins.
 
Affirm: Voyd N. Ballard 
Deny: Bob Strom
 
NOTE: All Scripture quotations are from the King James Version, unless 
otherwise specified.
 
Capital letters are for emphasis--Not shouting.
 
In this my second affirmative I will first answer Bob's first Rebuttal and then 
continue with Affirmative arguments.
 
In my first affirmative I emphasized that I accepted in advance every passage that 
might be introduced showing man is saved by faith. But I showed that in every 
instance it is a faith that moves man to obey God. 

I challenged Bob to produce one (just ONE) passage where any person was ever 
said to be justified by faith ALONE. Bob did not produce the passage, and he will 
NOT produce the passage for no such passage can be found anywhere in the 
Bible! 

He introduced some passages in the Roman and Galatian letters showing we are 
saved by faith, but none that says we are saved by faith alone. I accept those 
passages, but they certainly do not support Bob's position. 

His position is that the sinner is saved by faith before and without baptism. This is 
what Bob needs to prove. He is wasting his time arguing that the sinner is saved 
by faith, for this I believe as strongly as he dare express it. But remember the faith 
that saves is the faith that obeys. 

STROM: 
I do not find in Heb.11:7 by faith the sinner being warned of Christ is baptized 
into Christ to the saving of his soul.

BALLARD: 
Yes, but you do find that *by faith Noah being warned of God prepared an ark*, 
don't you? 

That is my point. Noah's faith MOVED him to obey God, and the sinner's faith 
must move him to obey, for Christ being made perfect, became the author of 
eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY HIM. (Heb.5:9) 
 
STROM: 
I agree that we are saved by faith. I do not agree that lost humanity can both 
believe AND choose to follow Christ in baptism and even enter into baptism 
while still lost, depraved and in rebellion against God. 

BALLARD: 
Bob, you misunderstand. I am not contending that the lost sinner can be baptized 
and saved in rebellion against God. The Bible teaches that the sinner is dead in 
trespasses and sin. (Eph.2:1) 

In order to leave the kingdom of sin (darkness) he must: 

Hear the Gospel: Rom.10:17; 1Cor.1:21 
Believe in Christ: Jno 8-24; Heb 11:6 
Repent of sins: Act 2:38; Act 7:30-31 
Confess Christ: Acts 8:37; Rom 10:9 
Be Baptized: Rom.6:3-4 - Gal. 3:26-29

In faith and repentance he dies to the love and practice of sin and in baptism he 
dies to the guilt and state of sin. Now despite the fact that I challenged Bob to 
produce even one passage that teaches the sinner is saved by faith only, which he 
did NOT and CANNOT he offers some passages in the Roman and Galatian 
letters which teach that salvation is not by the works of the Old Law, and then has 
the audacity to claim they teach that salvation is initiated at the moment of faith.

A little later he states we are saved by grace. Now Bob you can't have it both 
ways. If we are saved by faith alone grace is excluded and if we are saved by 
grace alone then faith is excluded, for faith and grace are to separate things and I 
have shown that all men are not saved by grace for they have not appropriated it 
unto themselves, and 

STROM: 
Agreed. 

BALLARD: 
Furthermore I have shown that man's faith is the door of entrance into the grace of 
God. 
 
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace where in we stand (Rom 5:2)
 
Now for some more Affirmative arguments.

1. There are three classes of works set forth in the N.T. 
A) Works of man: Eph.2: 8-9 
B) Works of the Old Law: Rom 3:20 
C) Works of God or Righteousness: Jno. 6:28-29

No man can be saved by his own works nor by the works of the Old Law. Bob 
cited some passages in the Roman and Galatian letters and made the wrong 
application of them. These are the works of the Old Law. Under the gospel 
dispensation man is saved by his obedience to the works of righteousness.
 
Faith in Christ is a work, 

This is the work of God that ye believe on him whom he hath sent (Jno. 6:29).
 
In Rom 4: 1-3 Paul affirms that Abraham was not saved by works and quotes 
Gen.15: 26 to prove it.
 
In Jas.2: 21-23 James affirms that Abraham was saved by WORKS and quotes the 
same Old Testament Scripture (Gen. 15:26) to prove it. Did these two Apostles 
contradict each other? GOD FORBID! 

What then is the explanation? Very simple. Paul was talking about the works of 
the Old Law and James was talking about the works of righteousness or 
obedience.

By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: (Heb. 11: 17). 

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son 
upon the altar? 

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. (Jas.2: 21-24)

Bob says, *By faith only.* James says, *NOT by faith only.* You take your 
choice. I'll take James. He was inspired--Bob is not!!!

2. Acts chapters 10 & 11 is a record of the conversion of Cornelius. He was told 
to send for Peter, 
 
*Who shall tell thee words whereby thou and thy house shall be saved.* Peter 
commenced those words by telling Cornelius, *in every nation he that feareth him 
and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.* (Acts 10:35) 

At the close of Peter's sermon he commanded them to be baptized in the name of 
the Lord.

3. No person can be saved without being in relationship with God, Christ and the 
Holy Spirit, but it is only through hearing the gospel, believing it, repenting of 
sins, confessing Christ, and being baptized that one enters into this relationship. 
Jesus told the Apostles to go and teach all nations, baptizing them INTO the name 
of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. 

I call upon Bob to cite just one verse that tells any other way to enter this 
relationship with God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit.

4. Rom.6: 16-18 says the Roman brethren were the servants of sin, but they 
obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine. 

*being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of Christ. *

Anyone not looking the other way can see that salvation is not by faith alone, but 
by obedience.
 
5. Bob will agree that one cannot be saved without the blood of Christ. That blood 
must be contacted, Since His blood was shed in His death, one must contact His 
death in order to contact His blood. Rom. 6:3-4 says,

*Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were 
baptized into his death?*

One cannot be saved out of the blood of Christ, but one cannot contact that blood 
outside the death of Christ, and one cannot get into the death of Christ except in 
baptism. So God's order is:

Blood of Christ-Death of Christ-Baptism into that Death. 

Bob cannot show any other way to contact the saving blood of Christ, and if he 
could it would contradict Rom. 6:4-4

6. Are we saved by faith? Most certainly. But it is a faith that MOVES us to obey 
God. 

*By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, MOVED with 
fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house.* (Heb.11: 7) 

A parallel statement would be *The sinner being warned of God ... MOVED with 
fear and was baptized INTO Christ.*
 
Bob said he did not see this in Heb. 11:6 - Well, it was because he wasn't looking!  
His *Faith only* doctrine blinded him. 

7. Paul says in Gal.3: 26 *For ye are all the children by faith in Christ Jesus.* Paul 
just how many are the children *by faith in Christ Jesus?*

Answer: *as many of you as have been baptized INTO Christ* (Vs.27)

You couldn't miss that with one eye closed and the other half open. I now await 
your second Negative.

P.S: Bob, I ask you a question in my first Affirmative which you did not answer, 
You danced all around it, but you did not answer it. It is a simple question that 
can be answered Yes or NO. Here it is again. Please give me a YES or a NO.

Can one be saved without doing right?

Voyd1@juno.com